3D Graphics in Dolphin, best way?

I want to write a 3D graphics simulator type program in Dolphin.  What is
the current thinking on the best way to do this?

I have looked at Creative Computing's ST3D tool
http://www.creative-computing-inc.com/ , and it looks quite cool based on
the web site.  However when I tried to run the samples on some older
(300-450 mhz) computers they just don't work.  I suspect this is due to the
OpenGL requirements.  Unfortunately I get the impression that ST3D is very
finicky about the display cards it will work with.  Am I just unlucky to
have had computers with poor OpenGL support, or is good OpenGL support only
available on "serious gamer" machines?  Would OpenGL work on most new low
end machines?  I would be curious to hear about other people's experience
with it.

I guess the alternative is DirectX.  My perception of compatibility in
regard to DirectX is more favorable.  I have seen DirectX based games run on
old 133 mhz machines with low end video cards.  Being that I don't play
games myself my experience may be limited.  Once again does any one have
comments on DirectX (specifically Direct3D) compatibility?  I don't care if
the look deteriorates on less powerful systems (less polygons, textures,
frame rate, etc...), I just want it to run.

Has anyone actually used a recent version of Direct3D from a recent version
of Dolphin?  Is the old OA package even worth looking at anymore, or should
I just generate the ActiveX classes myself?

Chris

Hi Christopher...

your assumptions regarding problems with OpenGL are probably right, I had
the same experience. Nowadays, Direct3D has much better driver support than
OpenGL by most card vendors. I use ST3D occasionally and it is quite nice,
but I have frequent (blue screen!) crashes on theATI Radeon 7500 Mobility
card on my notebook  ATI is well known for their poor OpenGL drivers.
Regarding Direct3D I have no idea how it is supported by Dlphin (I need 3D
stuff only occasionally). I fanybody has experience, I am interested, too!

Ciao

...Jochen

> I want to write a 3D graphics simulator type program in Dolphin.  What is
> the current thinking on the best way to do this?
>
> I have looked at Creative Computing's ST3D tool
> http://www.creative-computing-inc.com/ , and it looks quite cool based on
> the web site.  However when I tried to run the samples on some older
> (300-450 mhz) computers they just don't work.  I suspect this is due to
the
> OpenGL requirements.

It's probably the OpenGL drivers.  In my experience, the generic,
non-hardware accelerated OpenGL drivers that ship with Windows aren't very
good.  They work ok for trivial stuff like screen-savers but that's about
it.  I don't think MS puts a whole lot of work into their OpenGL
implementation given their emphasis on DirectX.  If you want a quality
OpenGL implmentation you need to get it from a hardware vendor like Nvidia.


> Unfortunately I get the impression that ST3D is very
> finicky about the display cards it will work with.  Am I just unlucky to
> have had computers with poor OpenGL support, or is good OpenGL support
only
> available on "serious gamer" machines?

Yes, ST3D is only supported on Nvidia-based cards.  I've tried ATI cards at
various points in time but have always run into difficulty with their OpenGL
drivers .  I haven't done any testing with any of their newer products
though.


> Would OpenGL work on most new low
> end machines?  I would be curious to hear about other people's experience
> with it.
>

The best I can tell you is "yes" if the "new low end machine", regardless of
the CPU speed, has Nvidia-based graphics (or possibly one of the newer parts
from ATI).  At the low-end, this would include anything configured with a
GF2MX, GF4MX or nForce chipset.  GF2MX and GF4MX are standard in quite a few
desktop and notebook systems these days.  If you wanted to upgrade an
existing system, a GF2MX or GF4MX can be had for around $50 US.


> I guess the alternative is DirectX.  My perception of compatibility in
> regard to DirectX is more favorable.  I have seen DirectX based games run
on
> old 133 mhz machines with low end video cards.  Being that I don't play
> games myself my experience may be limited.  Once again does any one have
> comments on DirectX (specifically Direct3D) compatibility?  I don't care
if
> the look deteriorates on less powerful systems (less polygons, textures,
> frame rate, etc...), I just want it to run.

I dabbled with wrapping Direct3D immediate mode services in Dolphin using
Dolphin's ActiveX support about a year ago (?).  I was able to get a
triangle on the screen without too much trouble.  I started looking at using
the rich D3DX(?) utility library only to find that MS had decided not to use
COM for that portion of the system (even though the rest of DirectX is based
on COM).  In fact, the D3DX services weren't even packaged in a DLL.  MS
provides it in the form of a STATIC library for some bizzare reason!  It
probably wouldn't be too much trouble to wrap the static library in a DLL
but I was sort of ambivalent about the whole thing to begin, so, with the
added aggravation of that discovery, I just chucked the whole thing.

>
> Has anyone actually used a recent version of Direct3D from a recent
version
> of Dolphin?  Is the old OA package even worth looking at anymore, or
should
> I just generate the ActiveX classes myself?
>

I looked at the D3D Gaming Kit a long time ago.  It was quite nice for
working with D3D Retained Mode.  Haven't tried it with any of the newer
versions of Dolphin. Also, I believe MS stopped enhancing (supporting?)
Retained Mode a couple of years ago.  Your best bet now would be to look at
wrapping D3D IM mode if you want to go the DirectX route.
FYI, there's a DirectX package available for Smalltalk MT you might want to
check into.  Haven't done anything with it myself.

Good luck,

Chris Hayes
Creative Computing