4.2 code freeze
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It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we
can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is this ok? We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: - Integration of Cryptography - Documentation - Integration of O-Completion What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? |
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O-Completion: +1 This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we -- Casey Ransberger |
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+1 for O-Completion
Cheers,
Sean |
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O-Completion: +1
2010/12/5 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
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In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente If it is stable, independent package, everyone can load it. As far as I understand the reasoning of why package X is in Trunk it is that (1) it is easier to develop trunk image with some set of currently cohesive packages in place, or that (2) package provides some essential functionality in line with Squeak's vision. I do use Squeak everyday but I have no need in funcionality O-Completion provides. I am interested that list of packages I need to unload before release do not grow.
Vaidotas
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On 12/5/10 7:45 AM, "Vaidotas Didžbalis" <[hidden email]> wrote: If it is stable, independent package, everyone can load it. As far as I understand the reasoning of why package X is in Trunk it is that (1) it is easier to develop trunk image with some set of currently cohesive packages in place, or that (2) package provides some essential functionality in line with Squeak's vision. I do use Squeak everyday but I have no need in funcionality O-Completion provides. I am interested that list of packages I need to unload before release do not grow. As builder of reduced images , I also was against packages list grows and grows. We should have a SqueakCore , as several times ask , and a serious work on it. And a list of well done , documented and useful packages which loads nicely and they do not fight each other. Edgar |
AW: Re: [squeak-dev] 4.2 code freeze
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In reply to this post by Casey Ransberger-2
About easy loading of 'community supported packages' ... Philipp Tessenow and I are working on something there, to make it easier. Shouldn't take much longer, will announce soon-ish.
-- Gesendet von meinem Palm Pre Casey Ransberger <[hidden email]> schrieb am 05.12.2010 03:52: O-Completion: +1 This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we -- Casey Ransberger |
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In reply to this post by laza
O-Completion: +1
Any dev environment provides help to the new users, and if we want more squeakers we need to offer tools as O-Completion. 2010/12/5 Alexander Lazarević <[hidden email]>: > O-Completion: +1 > > 2010/12/5 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> >> >> +1 for O-Completion >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/4-2-code-freeze-tp3072962p3073011.html >> Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > > > > -- ================================================= Germán S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com ================================================= |
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In reply to this post by Casey Ransberger-2
On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote:
> O-Completion: +1 > > Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're > doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think > about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) Dave > > This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that > they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we > > can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for > > 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is > > this ok? Yes this sounds good to me. > > > > We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest > > way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? > > > > Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page > > (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: > > > > - Integration of Cryptography > > - Documentation > > - Integration of O-Completion > > > > What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente > > already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and > > modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? > > > > What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? > > |
AW: Re: [squeak-dev] 4.2 code freeze
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Not maintaining it in the Trunk image is probably the right thing to do, but it should be included in the 4.2 release image.
-- Gesendet von meinem Palm Pre David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> schrieb am 05.12.2010 16:50: On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote: > O-Completion: +1 > > Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're > doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think > about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) Dave > > This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that > they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we > > can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for > > 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is > > this ok? Yes this sounds good to me. > > > > We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest > > way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? > > > > Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page > > (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: > > > > - Integration of Cryptography > > - Documentation > > - Integration of O-Completion > > > > What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente > > already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and > > modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? > > > > What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? > > |
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In reply to this post by David T. Lewis
I agree with Dave. Keep everything that is loadable out of the base release. If desired, make another dev release with the good stuff already loaded. I am finding the 'Extending the System' menu selection, opening the Workspace with all the snippets for loading externally maintained packages, seems to be a step in the right direction. IMHO, trunk could be thought of as an easy way to try things out and work on them, but not the best way for longer term maintenance of packages that should remain loadable.
Ken G. Brown from my iPhone On 2010-12-05, at 8:49, "David T. Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote: >> O-Completion: +1 >> >> Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're >> doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think >> about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. > > IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource > and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak > sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. > > What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion > (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image > is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and > easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, > and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) > > Dave > >> >> This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that >> they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. >> >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we >>> can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for >>> 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is >>> this ok? > > Yes this sounds good to me. > > >>> >>> We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest >>> way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? >>> >>> Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page >>> (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: >>> >>> - Integration of Cryptography >>> - Documentation >>> - Integration of O-Completion >>> >>> What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente >>> already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and >>> modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? >>> >>> What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? >>> > > |
AW: Re: [squeak-dev] 4.2 code freeze
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The thing is, although the 'Extending the System' workspace helps, newbies do not know about it, and even when they find it, it's not clear what to load to get a good dev-image. All current IDEs and even most better text editors have some sort of auto-completion nowadays. Since Squeak presents itself to the newcomer as an integrated development environment, it should act that way, too, imho. Having a good one-click, out-of-the-box experience is crucial if we want new people to come and stick to Squeak - otherwise they'll simply go on and use Pharo.
Just my 2¢. -- Gesendet von meinem Palm Pre Ken G. Brown <[hidden email]> schrieb am 05.12.2010 18:06: I agree with Dave. Keep everything that is loadable out of the base release. If desired, make another dev release with the good stuff already loaded. I am finding the 'Extending the System' menu selection, opening the Workspace with all the snippets for loading externally maintained packages, seems to be a step in the right direction. IMHO, trunk could be thought of as an easy way to try things out and work on them, but not the best way for longer term maintenance of packages that should remain loadable. Ken G. Brown from my iPhone On 2010-12-05, at 8:49, "David T. Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote: >> O-Completion: +1 >> >> Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're >> doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think >> about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. > > IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource > and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak > sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. > > What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion > (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image > is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and > easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, > and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) > > Dave > >> >> This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that >> they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. >> >> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we >>> can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for >>> 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is >>> this ok? > > Yes this sounds good to me. > > >>> >>> We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest >>> way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? >>> >>> Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page >>> (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: >>> >>> - Integration of Cryptography >>> - Documentation >>> - Integration of O-Completion >>> >>> What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente >>> already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and >>> modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? >>> >>> What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? >>> > > |
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In reply to this post by Tim Felgentreff
On 05.12.2010, at 16:59, Tim Felgentreff wrote:
> Not maintaining it in the Trunk image is probably the right thing to do, but it should be included in the 4.2 release image. +1 - Bert - -- Sent from my Zuse Z3 > -- Gesendet von meinem Palm Pre > > David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> schrieb am 05.12.2010 16:50: > > On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote: > > O-Completion: +1 > > > > Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're > > doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think > > about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. > > IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource > and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak > sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. > > What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion > (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image > is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and > easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, > and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) > > Dave > > > > > This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that > > they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. > > > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we > > > can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for > > > 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is > > > this ok? > > Yes this sounds good to me. > > > > > > > > We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest > > > way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? > > > > > > Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page > > > (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: > > > > > > - Integration of Cryptography > > > - Documentation > > > - Integration of O-Completion > > > > > > What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente > > > already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and > > > modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? > > > > > > What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? > > > > > > |
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Hi,
... sent from my differential engine. Steam powered and all. ;-) (LOL at Z3.) (Typos may be due to mechanical problems.) Best, Michael Am 05.12.2010 um 19:01 schrieb Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>: > On 05.12.2010, at 16:59, Tim Felgentreff wrote: > >> Not maintaining it in the Trunk image is probably the right thing to do, but it should be included in the 4.2 release image. > > +1 > > - Bert - > > -- Sent from my Zuse Z3 > >> -- Gesendet von meinem Palm Pre >> >> David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> schrieb am 05.12.2010 16:50: >> >> On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 06:52:08PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote: >>> O-Completion: +1 >>> >>> Yes oh yes please include O-Completion in 4.2. When we figure out what we're >>> doing about easy loading of "Community Supported Packages" we can think >>> about pulling it back out and making it an easily loadable package. >> >> IIUC, the O-Completion package is very actively maintained on SqueakSource >> and is already loadable in Squeak trunk. Making a fork of this in Squeak >> sounds to me like a Really Bad Idea. >> >> What would be a good idea is to *document* how to load O-Completion >> (probably in one of the welcome workspaces that appears when the image >> is first opened), so that a first time user can open Squeak 4.2 and >> easily see how to load this package. I just tried loading it myself, >> and it loads cleanly and works as advertised. What's not to like? :) >> >> Dave >> >>> >>> This is something that I can show developers who are new to Smalltalk that >>> they'll recognize and appreciate. I think it's a really big win. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we >>>> can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for >>>> 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is >>>> this ok? >> >> Yes this sounds good to me. >> >> >>>> >>>> We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest >>>> way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? >>>> >>>> Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page >>>> (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: >>>> >>>> - Integration of Cryptography >>>> - Documentation >>>> - Integration of O-Completion >>>> >>>> What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente >>>> already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and >>>> modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? >>>> >>>> What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? >>>> >> >> >> > > |
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In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, Chris Muller wrote:
> It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we > can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for > 4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is > this ok? I think it's better to freeze at a week boundary, because some people only have time for Squeak developement on weekends. So I suggest freezing the code on the 12th of december at 11:59 pm UTC. > > We should begin considering the release-notes. What is the easiest > way to identify everything that's one into 4.2 since 4.1? If you start the update process from a 4.1 image, then the update logs will contain all code changes. It's still far from perfect, but it's a good start. Another option is to collect information from the daily commit log mails. > > Some of the items listed at the 4.2-release page > (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6160) are: > > - Integration of Cryptography > - Documentation > - Integration of O-Completion > > What do we all think about integration of O-Completion? Levente > already did the work, it makes the IDE that much more useful and > modern and, it can be turned off. Shall we include that? I think we shouldn't fork OCompletion (just look at what happened to Shout, SmaCC, OB/RB, RFB, etc), but since some of you would like to have it in the release, the only way I see is to release a developer image with preinstalled tools besides the usual release. > > What What else do we need to consider for the 4.2 image release? There are - broken package dependencies - failing tests in the image - bugs on Mantis - pending contributions in the Inbox - VM issues There were plans for releasing 4.2 with SqueakVM and CogVM too. What's the status of the current VMs? Will they be ready for the release? Levente > > |
Re: AW: Re: [squeak-dev] 4.2 code freeze
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In reply to this post by Tim Felgentreff
+1. For attracting new Squeakers, I agree that it's crucial to have all the dev tools expected by the market. Leave the tweaking to the experts e.g. "Bare-bones the system" instead of "extend the system" for bread and butter IDE features. Or drop Smalltalk altogether! Until a year ago, I thought Smalltalk was a strange dead language. Lacking features that are basic in other environments will not combat this impression. Sean
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: AW: Re: [squeak-dev] 4.2 code freeze
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On 2010/12/05 21:38, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
> > > Tim Felgentreff wrote: >> >> Since Squeak presents itself to the newcomer as an integrated development >> environment, it should act that way, too, imho. Having a good one-click, >> out-of-the-box experience is crucial if we want new people to come and >> stick to Squeak >> > > +1. For attracting new Squeakers, I agree that it's crucial to have all the > dev tools expected by the market. Leave the tweaking to the experts e.g. > "Bare-bones the system" instead of "extend the system" for bread and butter > IDE features. > > > Tim Felgentreff wrote: >> >> otherwise they'll simply go on and use Pharo. >> > Or drop Smalltalk altogether! Until a year ago, I thought Smalltalk was a > strange dead language. Lacking features that are basic in other > environments will not combat this impression. Yes, but that's a distribution problem. Have a one-click with all the vital bells and whistles, great. That's not trunk though. So OCompletion should stay out of trunk _because_ it's nicely packaged, and when we say "OK kids, Squeak 4.2's here" we also say "...and here's the one-click with some nice extra add-ons you can't do without" frank |
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Integration of OCompletion would not need to be done as a fork. It could mean to have it preloaded in a trunk image and maintain that future versions still work. I don't think that having something like OCompletion per default in trunk will be like having "all bells and whistles". It's something basic like ... well ... shout, which we have forked into trunk. In general I don't think trunk means to keep it archaic and to blister yourself in using it. Alex 2010/12/5 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>
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In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 10:18:44PM +0100, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, Chris Muller wrote: > > >It's December, and time to consider freezing the 4.2 code base. If we > >can push any final enhancements and image documentation desired for > >4.2 in over the next week, we can freeze officially on the 11th. Is > >this ok? > > There were plans for releasing 4.2 with SqueakVM and CogVM too. What's the > status of the current VMs? Will they be ready for the release? > Ian, Andreas, John and Eliot are standing by for a VM build mid-December, and Esteban is working with John on transition of the Mac responsibilities. So knock wood, yes the VMs will be ready. In the interest of managing expectations, I should say that the Cog and classic VM code bases are not yet integrated (and will not be in the Squeak 4.2 time frame), so there may be some minor incompatibilities. But at this point in the process, that's a small price to pay for a high performance VM. There will probably also be some packaging issues on Linux (which VM gets run by default, and how?) which will probably get sorted out after the the new VMs are built. What you can expect for the 4.2 release is that Cog will be available as the performance VM on the major 32-bit intel platforms, and that new versions of the classic interpreter VM will be able to run images saved from Cog. So there will be a high degree of interoperability, excellent performance on the mainstream platforms that support Cog, and the traditional portability and availability of the interpreter VM. In addition, the weak collections improvements in Squeak trunk are a major performance improvement for Squeak 4.2, and the necessary VM support will be present in all of the new VMs. Dave |
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In reply to this post by laza
2010/12/5 Alexander Lazarević <[hidden email]>:
> Integration of OCompletion would not need to be done as a fork. It could > mean to have it preloaded in a trunk image and maintain that future versions > still work. > > I don't think that having something like OCompletion per default in trunk > will be like having "all bells and whistles". It's something basic like ... > well ... shout, which we have forked into trunk. > > In general I don't think trunk means to keep it archaic and to blister > yourself in using it. > FULL full agree. |
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