[7.8] Spinbutton question

> industry for a very long time.
> What am I missing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Carl Gundel
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> Carl
>
> Instead of a date spinner use 3 spinners, year, month, and day. That is what
> I had to do.
>
> Terry
>
> ===========================================================
> Terry Raymond
> Crafted Smalltalk
> 80 Lazywood Ln.
> Tiverton, RI  02878
> (401) 624-4517      [hidden email]
> ===========================================================
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Carl Gundel
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:50 PM
>> To: VWNC
>> Subject: [vwnc] [7.8] Spinbutton question
>>
>> The spinbutton widget seems really substandard.  For example if I set it
> to be
>> a date spinner I cannot type into the field or use the spin buttons to
> adjust
>> just the month, for example.  Clicking the up button will only advance the
>> date one day at a time.  This level of functionality has been expected in
> the
>> industry for a very long time.
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Carl Gundel
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> That's just ugly.  My customers would HATE it.  I'm going to have to write my own widgets?
>
> -Carl Gundel
> Liberty BASIC for Windows - http://www.libertybasic.com
> Run BASIC, easy web programming - http://www.runbasic.com
>
> On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:09 AM, "Terry Raymond"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Carl
>>
>> Instead of a date spinner use 3 spinners, year, month, and day. That is what
>> I had to do.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> ===========================================================
>> Terry Raymond
>> Crafted Smalltalk
>> 80 Lazywood Ln.
>> Tiverton, RI  02878
>> (401) 624-4517      [hidden email]
>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>> Behalf Of Carl Gundel
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:50 PM
>>> To: VWNC
>>> Subject: [vwnc] [7.8] Spinbutton question
>>>
>>> The spinbutton widget seems really substandard.  For example if I set it
>> to be
>>> a date spinner I cannot type into the field or use the spin buttons to
>> adjust
>>> just the month, for example.  Clicking the up button will only advance the
>>> date one day at a time.  This level of functionality has been expected in
>> the
>>> industry for a very long time.
>>> What am I missing?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Carl Gundel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> vwnc mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>
>

> Carl,
> There is  a very nice Date widget in the Public Store take a look at it.  You can find it at:  pkg DateField, take a look  also PLCalendar in the contributed.
>
> --Mark
>
> Carl Gundel wrote:
>> That's just ugly.  My customers would HATE it.  I'm going to have to write my own widgets?
>>
>> -Carl Gundel
>> Liberty BASIC for Windows - http://www.libertybasic.com
>> Run BASIC, easy web programming - http://www.runbasic.com
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:09 AM, "Terry Raymond"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> Instead of a date spinner use 3 spinners, year, month, and day. That is what
>>> I had to do.
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>> ===========================================================
>>> Terry Raymond
>>> Crafted Smalltalk
>>> 80 Lazywood Ln.
>>> Tiverton, RI  02878
>>> (401) 624-4517      [hidden email]
>>> ===========================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>>> Behalf Of Carl Gundel
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:50 PM
>>>> To: VWNC
>>>> Subject: [vwnc] [7.8] Spinbutton question
>>>>
>>>> The spinbutton widget seems really substandard.  For example if I set it
>>> to be
>>>> a date spinner I cannot type into the field or use the spin buttons to
>>> adjust
>>>> just the month, for example.  Clicking the up button will only advance the
>>>> date one day at a time.  This level of functionality has been expected in
>>> the
>>>> industry for a very long time.
>>>> What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -Carl Gundel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> vwnc mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> vwnc mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>
>>
>>
>

> Thanks Mark.  I did look in the public store, but somehow I overlooked it.
>
> -Carl Gundel
> Liberty BASIC for Windows - http://www.libertybasic.com
> Run BASIC, easy web programming - http://www.runbasic.com
>
> On Apr 5, 2012, at 11:09 AM, Mark Pirogovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>> There is  a very nice Date widget in the Public Store take a look at it.  You can find it at:  pkg DateField, take a look  also PLCalendar in the contributed.
>>
>> --Mark
>>
>> Carl Gundel wrote:
>>> That's just ugly.  My customers would HATE it.  I'm going to have to write my own widgets?
>>>
>>> -Carl Gundel
>>> Liberty BASIC for Windows - http://www.libertybasic.com
>>> Run BASIC, easy web programming - http://www.runbasic.com
>>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:09 AM, "Terry Raymond"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> Instead of a date spinner use 3 spinners, year, month, and day. That is what
>>>> I had to do.
>>>>
>>>> Terry
>>>>
>>>> ===========================================================
>>>> Terry Raymond
>>>> Crafted Smalltalk
>>>> 80 Lazywood Ln.
>>>> Tiverton, RI  02878
>>>> (401) 624-4517      [hidden email]
>>>> ===========================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Carl Gundel
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:50 PM
>>>>> To: VWNC
>>>>> Subject: [vwnc] [7.8] Spinbutton question
>>>>>
>>>>> The spinbutton widget seems really substandard.  For example if I set it
>>>> to be
>>>>> a date spinner I cannot type into the field or use the spin buttons to
>>>> adjust
>>>>> just the month, for example.  Clicking the up button will only advance the
>>>>> date one day at a time.  This level of functionality has been expected in
>>>> the
>>>>> industry for a very long time.
>>>>> What am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> -Carl Gundel
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> vwnc mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> vwnc mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> vwnc mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

> I think this is a good segue into something that I often think needs to be enumerated a bit clearer. I am going off of the original question which was something like "Why is Cincom so slow to integrate things that are in the public community?" Antony expresses some understood frustration. This is directed at those who write software that why wish Cincom would be more proactive about integrating into the product.
>
> The first thing to understand is that there is a difference between an extra and an integrated product. The whole point of "integrated" is that it gives up a large amount of its individual identity in the interest of becoming part of the greater whole. When you have a piece of software you wish would get integrated, I think this is the first thing you have to emotionally/philosophically come to grips with. Am I writing this as an add on? Do I want to maintain general control/direction over what it is, and how it evolves. If you decide you like it distinct, then you get to stop there. Sadly, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If it's yours, you get to do whatever floats your boat, no need to worry about any of this.
>
> But if you do find yourself hoping your efforts diffuse into the base product, there's things you can do to make it more likely/easy. Do you have to do these? No. But the more you do, the higher the odds, because the resistance to getting it integrated. All of those ideas pull abstractly from XP/common sense principles, and from experience having sat both sides of the fence, as well as having contributed to various open source projects outside of Smalltalk.
>
> Format your Code
> Seriously. We use the standard formatter with standard options for all of the GUI/Tools code. External code that is to be integrated, just means I have to go format it all. But it runs a little deeper than that. We try to use things like real variable names, intention revealing selectors, method arguments that are of the anArtileAndMabyeAType format, while locals use specificRoleNames, standard conventional variables such as 'each' for loop arguments (or eachSomething). Every deviance from this kind of stuff, means more work for a Cincom engineer to bring the code to be integrated into some sort of harmony with the rest. We have all too many historical examples of where this hasn't happened. Everyone of those has been taking out a long term loan that we have to pay for. Many people have their own little styles and add on things they like to do. It may be of value to you, but from an integration pov, it's just a barrier to having it integrated.
>
> Write Tests
> Good unit tests help. Good unit tests are rarely good validation tests, you can try to use a framework like SUnit(Too) to do both, but the kind that mean more to me personally are the kind that emphasize design over validation.
>
> Comment your Code
> This goes along with the format stuff I guess. There's a standard style, template, etc. If you don't fill out, if you don't comment the important API methods and how they're to be used, it's just work I have to do myself. Use proper sentences in method comments. We don't want your specialized/personal method of annotating variable names of whatever.
>
> Match the Metaphor
> Where it makes sense, match the general metaphors of the rest of the system. Too many times I have been encouraged to integrate something that drags a bunch of other metaphors along with it. Metaphors that might work for the contributing individual, but add baggage to what the essence is.
>
> Talk to an Engineer
> It pays to talk to someone ahead of time, and during the development. You may think we really really really need a new XML parser and would like to write one, and want us to integrate your newer and better one when you're done. We may point out that we're too obligated to ours. Or that features you want to have, we tried already, and while they're good, there's another concern (such as performance) that governed what we did. For example, if you're the "The more tunable options the better" type of guy and you insist on writing your goodies with the hope that Cincom will gobble up, then it's unfortunate that you didn't talk to me first and get a good drumming about the ears about less is more and design/interaction simplicity.
>
> Keep it Small and Focused
> Monster pieces of functionality are tough to allocate a sufficient slice of time to deal with. Smalltalk pieces of software can fit in between the cracks better. "I rewrote all of the browsers, please integrate them" is harder them smaller/simpler things. But even more important, so often these various packages that we should just gobble up, come with little extra baggage. A couple of additions to the base that the developer thinks are handy. An addition to the launchers menus. An inspector tweak. Etc. Leaving those "extras" out greases the skids better.
>
>
> Manager/Helper/Worker Objects Beware
> If I see this kind of smell, it's an immediate turn off for integration. It means I will probably have to do a lot of work to redesign the object oriented aspect of your contribution. This and other design smells can be far more difficult for us to overcome than the above issues. The "Talk to an Engineer" can help a lot here.