8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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Hi,
-- I am just trying my first headless packaging of a Seaside App as a Windows Service with VAST 8.6. The readme mentions the new Glorp and Seaside XD features, and I can see Glorp entries in the new image creation dialog, but not Seaside. And, consequently, the headless image says Class "SstHttpSessionManager" not loaded! Am I wrong in expecting a Seaside entry in the list of features for a new passive image? I also cannot find any info on XD packaging Seaside anywhere in the documentation. Any hint is appreciated Joachim You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/va-smalltalk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Hi Joachim I had a similar issue re: SstHttpSessionManager.Expand Pool Dictionaries DELETE RULE: Reduce all Pool Dictionaries INCLUDE: SstHttpConstants KR On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:49 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Hi Dusty,
-- thanks for your tips - I'll try later today. The packaging rules were the thing I was about to try. I have been XD packaging for Linux with Seaside and Glorp for almost two years now, and after some initial hickups it went smoothly ever since. But I was wondering how the new XD Seaside Feature manifests itself, because I can neither see it mentioned in the docs nor was it in the "create image" dialog of the Server Workbench. But maybe I am just missing some stuff I need to load into the active image... Joachim Am Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 09:08:15 UTC+2 schrieb Dusty:
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Re: 8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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In reply to this post by jtuchel
Joachim - Load the ST: Server, SST feature in your development image to get SST and Seaside XD features. John On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 2:49:24 AM UTC-4, [hidden email] wrote:
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Hi John,
-- do you suggest loading the feature in the development image or into the active/running image in which I create the passive image for XD packaging? I'm asking because the feature also loads Server Workbench, which I don't really need at development time (at least I haven't missed it yet). Joachim Am Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 20:17:51 UTC+2 schrieb John O'Keefe:
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Hi John,
-- I tried loading it and now I see the Seaside features in the image properties. Thanks for the tip. I think I prefer to keep this feature out of my development images, because it loads lots of stuff like web services that I don't really need. It seems like loading it into my active XD image instead of only the server workbench feature is the perfect thing to do. Unless you tell me about reasons I haven't thought of yet. Joachim Am Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 22:00:56 UTC+2 schrieb [hidden email]:
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Ok,
-- so there is this tick mark on the new Image... Dialog in an XD image. But there is no Packaging Instructions for Seaside, right? I cannot find a subclass anywhere that hints at being specialized for Seaside, So all that has been said about packaging a headless seaside image in 8.5.2 still seems to be true: you need to mark lots of applications with "do not reduce" by hand. Today we went through all the same problems we had had with 8.5.2: SstHttpSessionManager was missing from the packaged icx, as well as WAFileHandler, and all that stuff... Or am I overlooking something? Joachim Am Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 22:07:08 UTC+2 schrieb [hidden email]:
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Re: 8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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Joachim - XD packages your application as an IC. When you open the Packager Control Panel, just pick the kind of IC you want, progress to the Modify Instructions page, select your Seaside application from the left panel and move it to the center panel. Then you should see a list of prerequisite ICs in the right panel. The 2 Seaside ICs will be in that list (unless you have a version mis-match between the Seaside apps loaded in XD and the Seaside ICs). John On Monday, October 7, 2013 1:36:03 PM UTC-4, [hidden email] wrote:
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Hi John,
-- thanks for the info. So there is no ready-made single-image (icx) option, right? Can I use ic packaging to create an NT service? Joachim Am Montag, 7. Oktober 2013 23:20:45 UTC+2 schrieb John O'Keefe:
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Re: 8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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In reply to this post by John O'Keefe-3
And what about the "XD Single Image" packaging instruction ? This is a headless reduced image ..... ????
-- Marten You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/va-smalltalk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Sure, but it is not Seaside specific and there is no Seaside-specific subclass of it.
-- Am Dienstag, 8. Oktober 2013 16:35:01 UTC+2 schrieb Marten Feldtmann:
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Re: 8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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Well, Joachim - another reason, why I switch to IC delivery.
-- I'm getting mad about all that packaging and reduction and I really do not care, if I deliver a 12 MB IC or just an 8 MB reduced image to my server. For my last project event I had a total of about 11 ICs I delivered to Windows and Linux systems. The biggest IC was the base IC containig all the base Smalltalk delivered from Instantiations (SST, Kernel, Compiler, Databases, Seaside, Javascript, ....): 12.5 MB. The next one was a 1MB IC with all my native wrappers (JSON, CouchDB, ICU, Mono, Lua, PostgreSQL, ...) The application itselfs consists of ICs with sizes from 6 KByte to 132 KByte (around 6 different application running in one server app). That all does not mean, that IC delivery has no problems - as you can see from my other postings. The most happening error for me when doing IC delivery is due to mistakes when I create the content of the ICs and somehow one class was put in different ICs. This happens quite often, if you rearrange the content of your ICs. This can bring you quite easily nightmares. Another feature very often does not work: reducing the memory footprint of several concurrent running application sharing the same ICs. Actually I'm considering more and more going into the delivery of TWO ICs approach: -> base IC with nearly ALL features and my applications (multi dependent base component) -> starting (leaf) IC starting Seaside (17 KByte) or the three IC approach: -> base IC with nearly ALL features (multi dependent base component) -> IC holding my applications (XD reusable image component) -> starting (leaf) IC starting Seaside (17 KByte) Using so many ICs puts much more work on organization and your build system - VA has no real support for that (other than what is available at vastgoodies.com). You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/va-smalltalk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Marten,
-- I want to be able to fix a method in Seaside or any feature at any time and just repackage using my Packaging Instructions. In the early days of Glorp and Seaside I had dozens of fixes to each of them. Right now it's below ten. My feeling towards ICs is that they add complexity. I sometimes wish I could just put a dev image on the production server and forget about all that stuff ;-) I fully agree that on a server machine, talking about saving a few megs is ridiculous and not worth a single thought. My deployment image is less than 4 megs in size, and I wouldn't care if it was 20 or 50 megs, and I doubt I'll reach that any time soon. So we have the same feelings about what cares and what doesn't, but come to completely different conclusions. I like the idea of pressing a button and copying one single new image to the server. Not having a Seaside-specialized XD packaging instruction is not much of a deal once you've invested a few hours in finding out what needs to be unreduced. I was just expecting this to be present in 8.6. But I must admit that is not what Instantiations claim they have. So I had wrong expectations. Joachim Am Dienstag, 8. Oktober 2013 21:17:47 UTC+2 schrieb Marten Feldtmann:
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Re: 8.6: where is the Seaside XD feature?
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They add complexity if you have lots of ICs (but this is mainly due to missing support by the IDE and the general problem of using configmaps and application for your building process).
-- If you go the two- or the three-IC approach its the nicest way of getting an unreduced image. Actually my preferred idea is the three-IC approach, because the main IC and the Seaside Starter IC do not change very often and can be stable over a "long" period of time (after the 8.5.2 has been fixed by numerous patches, the main IC remains stable up over several months to September when the 8.6 was published, then I updated the needed applications to the 8.6 versions and I had a new base IC within two hours). By the way: the Seaside Starter IC not only starts Seaside and installs the adapter, but also imports all other available ICs - which is mainly my application IC. This application IC expects Seaside to run, register itselfs and is then available for the user. Another application needed? Either put it into your application IC or create a new IC, which is loaded by the starter, which registeres itselfs, which is available to the user .... And you mainly work in your application IC, which is normally pretty small. That means, that - whenever your application changes - you just send perhaps 200-300k bytes IC to your server and that's it. Comparable to those small .NET applications ... In our business case we had that server-application on each Windows and Linux workstations with Seaside GUI - therefore its more an end-user application than a server applications. The update process was done via Internet download by the application itselfs and then its quite a difference if you have to download this big main IC again and again. Another demo was to include ExtJS4 from Sencha into an IC to have the runtime files for an ExtJS application hosted by a VASmalltalk server application. The IC to have the runtime files for ExtJS4 was about 12 MB large (reaching some limits of the ENVY structure) ... the ExtJs4 demo application IC itselfs was again pretty small .... but it was just a demo (for a single user application) (to show the managers, how browser-based GUI can look like - and how VASmalltalk can "switch" into the future of our applications) , because several serious stuff is still missing in VA: WebSockets and REST. Marten Am Dienstag, 8. Oktober 2013 22:32:51 UTC+2 schrieb [hidden email]:
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