A Gentle Introduction to Amber

The tutorial article is currently at 688 views. It won't be long till it surpasses 700, so yes, it looks like we will capture the 10%. All things considered, we're doing well...

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 09:33:21 UTC-4, Sean DeNigris wrote:

Herby Vojčík wrote
> Yes, Go had hype and Smalltalk has rumours if being a dead horse
>> I'm rather disappointed at the reception of my Amber tutorial

Unix, which Alan Kay describes as "a budget of bad ideas" (and I agree),
took almost 50 years to take over the world [1]. Maybe you're 10 years too
early to make Smalltalk popular ;) But seriously, I think you're using the
wrong metrics. The great majority of people are instrumental thinkers i.e.
they judge every new thing by how useful it is to their current goals. This
is the definition of the Pink Plane. Given that the real value of Smalltalk
is that it's prototype Dynabook software, which is way into the blue plane
of computing, convincing the masses of its value is extremely unlikely - and
not required! If say 10% of programmers are interested in the inherent value
of ideas, and we capture this 10%, that will be more than enough critical
mass. And given your report of relative popularity of your blog posts,
570/7000 = 8% doesn't sound too far off ;)

BTW I'm not saying don't try to reach as many people as possible, only to
reframe what failure looks like.

[1]
<a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/05/07/is-unix-now-the-most-successful-operating-system-of-all-time/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Ftimworstall%2F2013%2F05%2F07%2Fis-unix-now-the-most-successful-operating-system-of-all-time%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNECO1Oq3IqZ9gH7n88RQ1iLUrH7SQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Ftimworstall%2F2013%2F05%2F07%2Fis-unix-now-the-most-successful-operating-system-of-all-time%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNECO1Oq3IqZ9gH7n88RQ1iLUrH7SQ';return true;">http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/05/07/is-unix-now-the-most-successful-operating-system-of-all-time/



-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Richard Eng wrote:

> I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in a typical web
> application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not asked to
> write/generate HTML.
>
> Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber tutorial, I *will* be
> examining Silk.
>
>
> On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Richard Eng wrote:
>      > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using HTMLCanvas.
>     For example,
>      >
>      > ||
>      > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      > '<form>
>      > <table>
>      > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>     type="password"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      > </table>
>      > </form>'

Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in Silk:

   '#client-main' asSilk
     FORM
       TABLE
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Username:'.
           Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Password'.
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
         TR: {
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is pretty flexible
in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece uses `TAG:
content` convenient method heavily.

(uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any uppercase
message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)

>      >
>      > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to programmatically
>     create
>      > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>     familiar with;
>      > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>     frameworks use
>      > HTML templates).
>      >
>      > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject raw HTML.
>     It's much
>
>     IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not Web then at
>     least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings regularly. It has
>     different approach, maybe having simple methods returning array of
>     elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as flexible enough
>     (while retaining objects all the way).
>
>      > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is much more
>     natural
>      > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need to solve the
>      > issue of
>      >
>      > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      >
>      > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break from the loop.
>      >
>      >
>      > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr wrote:
>      >
>      > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11 05:40:09 +0200:
>      > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and vetting, I've
>      > made many
>      > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding examples.
>      > It's now
>      > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      > >
>      > >
>      >
>     <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;">http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/
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>
>      >
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>
>      >
>      >
>      > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the excursion on switch?
>      > it is not
>      > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you feel the
>      > need to
>      > apologize for it.
>      >
>      > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if it's mentioned
>      > at all.
>      >
>      > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>     smalltalk to
>      > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the example you
>      > give doesn't
>      > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to read. on the
>      > contrary.
>      >
>      > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks like
>      > smalltalk is more
>      > typing.
>      >
>      > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal with html given
>      > to me by
>      > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>      >
>      > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk is just
>      > busywork. and
>      > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not practical.
>      >
>      > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST api example.
>      > that's
>      > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try to get this to
>      > run.
>      >
>      > greetings, martin.
>      >
>      > --
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Hmmm...

Silk does not understand #TD:

What's the correct way to add a label?

On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:

Richard Eng wrote:

> I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in a typical web
> application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not asked to
> write/generate HTML.
>
> Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber tutorial, I *will* be
> examining Silk.
>
>
> On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Richard Eng wrote:
>      > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using HTMLCanvas.
>     For example,
>      >
>      > ||
>      > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      > '<form>
>      > <table>
>      > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>     type="password"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      > </table>
>      > </form>'

Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in Silk:

   '#client-main' asSilk
     FORM
       TABLE
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Username:'.
           Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Password'.
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
         TR: {
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is pretty flexible
in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece uses `TAG:
content` convenient method heavily.

(uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any uppercase
message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)

>      >
>      > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to programmatically
>     create
>      > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>     familiar with;
>      > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>     frameworks use
>      > HTML templates).
>      >
>      > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject raw HTML.
>     It's much
>
>     IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not Web then at
>     least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings regularly. It has
>     different approach, maybe having simple methods returning array of
>     elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as flexible enough
>     (while retaining objects all the way).
>
>      > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is much more
>     natural
>      > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need to solve the
>      > issue of
>      >
>      > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      >
>      > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break from the loop.
>      >
>      >
>      > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr wrote:
>      >
>      > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11 05:40:09 +0200:
>      > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and vetting, I've
>      > made many
>      > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding examples.
>      > It's now
>      > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      > >
>      > >
>      >
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>
>      >
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>
>      >
>      >
>      > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the excursion on switch?
>      > it is not
>      > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you feel the
>      > need to
>      > apologize for it.
>      >
>      > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if it's mentioned
>      > at all.
>      >
>      > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>     smalltalk to
>      > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the example you
>      > give doesn't
>      > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to read. on the
>      > contrary.
>      >
>      > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks like
>      > smalltalk is more
>      > typing.
>      >
>      > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal with html given
>      > to me by
>      > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>      >
>      > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk is just
>      > busywork. and
>      > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not practical.
>      >
>      > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST api example.
>      > that's
>      > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try to get this to
>      > run.
>      >
>      > greetings, martin.
>      >
>      > --
>      > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life
>      > --
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>      > unix sysadmin
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>      >
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Oh, so simple:

Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'

On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:

Hmmm...

Silk does not understand #TD:

What's the correct way to add a label?

On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:

Richard Eng wrote:

> I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in a typical web
> application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not asked to
> write/generate HTML.
>
> Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber tutorial, I *will* be
> examining Silk.
>
>
> On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Richard Eng wrote:
>      > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using HTMLCanvas.
>     For example,
>      >
>      > ||
>      > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      > '<form>
>      > <table>
>      > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>     type="password"></td></tr>
>      > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      > </table>
>      > </form>'

Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in Silk:

   '#client-main' asSilk
     FORM
       TABLE
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Username:'.
           Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
         TR: {
           Silk TD: 'Password'.
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
         TR: {
           Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is pretty flexible
in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece uses `TAG:
content` convenient method heavily.

(uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any uppercase
message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)

>      >
>      > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to programmatically
>     create
>      > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>     familiar with;
>      > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>     frameworks use
>      > HTML templates).
>      >
>      > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject raw HTML.
>     It's much
>
>     IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not Web then at
>     least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings regularly. It has
>     different approach, maybe having simple methods returning array of
>     elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as flexible enough
>     (while retaining objects all the way).
>
>      > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is much more
>     natural
>      > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need to solve the
>      > issue of
>      >
>      > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      >
>      > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break from the loop.
>      >
>      >
>      > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr wrote:
>      >
>      > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11 05:40:09 +0200:
>      > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and vetting, I've
>      > made many
>      > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding examples.
>      > It's now
>      > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      > >
>      > >
>      >
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>
>      >
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>
>      >
>      >
>      > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the excursion on switch?
>      > it is not
>      > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you feel the
>      > need to
>      > apologize for it.
>      >
>      > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if it's mentioned
>      > at all.
>      >
>      > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>     smalltalk to
>      > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the example you
>      > give doesn't
>      > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to read. on the
>      > contrary.
>      >
>      > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks like
>      > smalltalk is more
>      > typing.
>      >
>      > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal with html given
>      > to me by
>      > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>      >
>      > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk is just
>      > busywork. and
>      > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not practical.
>      >
>      > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST api example.
>      > that's
>      > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try to get this to
>      > run.
>      >
>      > greetings, martin.
>      >
>      > --
>      > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life
>      > --
>      > chief engineer eKita.co
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>      > unix sysadmin
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Richard Eng wrote:

> Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the cells in the
> table are not aligning correctly. This was never a problem with the Web
> package.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>     Oh, so simple:
>
>     Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>
>
>     On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>         Hmmm...
>
>         Silk does not understand #TD:
>
>         What's the correct way to add a label?
>
>
>         On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>             Richard Eng wrote:
>              > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>             a typical web
>              > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>             asked to
>              > write/generate HTML.
>              >
>              > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>             tutorial, I *will* be
>              > examining Silk.
>              >
>              >
>              > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>              >
>              >
>              >
>              > Richard Eng wrote:
>              > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>             HTMLCanvas.
>              > For example,
>              > >
>              > > ||
>              > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>              > > '<form>
>              > > <table>
>              > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>              > type="password"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>              > > </table>
>              > > </form>'
>
>             Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>             Silk:
>
>             '#client-main' asSilk
>             FORM
>             TABLE
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Password'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct pieces.

>
>             Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>             pretty flexible
>             in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>             uses `TAG:
>             content` convenient method heavily.
>
>             (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>             uppercase
>             message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>
>              > >
>              > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>             programmatically
>              > create
>              > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>              > familiar with;
>              > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>              > frameworks use
>              > > HTML templates).
>              > >
>              > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>             raw HTML.
>              > It's much
>              >
>              > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>             Web then at
>              > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>             regularly. It has
>              > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>             array of
>              > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>             flexible enough
>              > (while retaining objects all the way).
>              >
>              > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>             much more
>              > natural
>              > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>             to solve the
>              > > issue of
>              > >
>              > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>              > >
>              > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>             from the loop.
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>             wrote:
>              > >
>              > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>             05:40:09 +0200:
>              > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>             vetting, I've
>              > > made many
>              > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>             examples.
>              > > It's now
>              > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>              > > >
>              > > >
>              > >
>              >
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>
>              >
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>             excursion on switch?
>              > > it is not
>              > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>             feel the
>              > > need to
>              > > apologize for it.
>              > >
>              > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>             it's mentioned
>              > > at all.
>              > >
>              > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>              > smalltalk to
>              > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>             example you
>              > > give doesn't
>              > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>             read. on the
>              > > contrary.
>              > >
>              > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>             like
>              > > smalltalk is more
>              > > typing.
>              > >
>              > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>             with html given
>              > > to me by
>              > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>              > >
>              > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>             is just
>              > > busywork. and
>              > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>             practical.
>              > >
>              > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>             api example.
>              > > that's
>              > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>             to get this to
>              > > run.
>              > >
>              > > greetings, martin.
>              > >
>              > > --
>              > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life
>              > > --
>              > > chief engineer eKita.co
>              > > pike programmer <a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">pike.lysator.liu.se
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>              > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>              > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
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>              > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>              > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
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>              > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
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>              > > unix sysadmin
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In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:

Silk does not understand #TD:

(I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)

Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?

On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:

Richard Eng wrote:

> Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the cells in the
> table are not aligning correctly. This was never a problem with the Web
> package.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>     Oh, so simple:
>
>     Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>
>
>     On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>         Hmmm...
>
>         Silk does not understand #TD:
>
>         What's the correct way to add a label?
>
>
>         On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>             Richard Eng wrote:
>              > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>             a typical web
>              > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>             asked to
>              > write/generate HTML.
>              >
>              > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>             tutorial, I *will* be
>              > examining Silk.
>              >
>              >
>              > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>              >
>              >
>              >
>              > Richard Eng wrote:
>              > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>             HTMLCanvas.
>              > For example,
>              > >
>              > > ||
>              > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>              > > '<form>
>              > > <table>
>              > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>              > type="password"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>              > > </table>
>              > > </form>'
>
>             Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>             Silk:
>
>             '#client-main' asSilk
>             FORM
>             TABLE
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Password'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct pieces.

>
>             Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>             pretty flexible
>             in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>             uses `TAG:
>             content` convenient method heavily.
>
>             (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>             uppercase
>             message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>
>              > >
>              > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>             programmatically
>              > create
>              > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>              > familiar with;
>              > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>              > frameworks use
>              > > HTML templates).
>              > >
>              > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>             raw HTML.
>              > It's much
>              >
>              > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>             Web then at
>              > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>             regularly. It has
>              > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>             array of
>              > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>             flexible enough
>              > (while retaining objects all the way).
>              >
>              > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>             much more
>              > natural
>              > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>             to solve the
>              > > issue of
>              > >
>              > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>              > >
>              > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>             from the loop.
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>             wrote:
>              > >
>              > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>             05:40:09 +0200:
>              > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>             vetting, I've
>              > > made many
>              > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>             examples.
>              > > It's now
>              > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>              > > >
>              > > >
>              > >
>              >
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>
>              >
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>             excursion on switch?
>              > > it is not
>              > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>             feel the
>              > > need to
>              > > apologize for it.
>              > >
>              > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>             it's mentioned
>              > > at all.
>              > >
>              > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>              > smalltalk to
>              > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>             example you
>              > > give doesn't
>              > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>             read. on the
>              > > contrary.
>              > >
>              > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>             like
>              > > smalltalk is more
>              > > typing.
>              > >
>              > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>             with html given
>              > > to me by
>              > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>              > >
>              > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>             is just
>              > > busywork. and
>              > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>             practical.
>              > >
>              > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>             api example.
>              > > that's
>              > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>             to get this to
>              > > run.
>              > >
>              > > greetings, martin.
>              > >
>              > > --
>              > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life
>              > > --
>              > > chief engineer eKita.co
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>              > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
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>              > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
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>              > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
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>              > > unix sysadmin
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>      

...

Where you use 'Silk open', I also get:

Silk does not understand #open


On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:22:40 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:

In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:

Silk does not understand #TD:

(I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)

Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?

On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:

Richard Eng wrote:

> Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the cells in the
> table are not aligning correctly. This was never a problem with the Web
> package.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>     Oh, so simple:
>
>     Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>
>
>     On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>
>         Hmmm...
>
>         Silk does not understand #TD:
>
>         What's the correct way to add a label?
>
>
>         On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>             Richard Eng wrote:
>              > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>             a typical web
>              > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>             asked to
>              > write/generate HTML.
>              >
>              > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>             tutorial, I *will* be
>              > examining Silk.
>              >
>              >
>              > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>              >
>              >
>              >
>              > Richard Eng wrote:
>              > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>             HTMLCanvas.
>              > For example,
>              > >
>              > > ||
>              > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>              > > '<form>
>              > > <table>
>              > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>              > type="password"></td></tr>
>              > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>              > > </table>
>              > > </form>'
>
>             Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>             Silk:
>
>             '#client-main' asSilk
>             FORM
>             TABLE
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD: 'Password'.
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>             TR: {
>             Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }

This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct pieces.

>
>             Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>             pretty flexible
>             in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>             uses `TAG:
>             content` convenient method heavily.
>
>             (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>             uppercase
>             message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>
>              > >
>              > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>             programmatically
>              > create
>              > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what I'm
>              > familiar with;
>              > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>              > frameworks use
>              > > HTML templates).
>              > >
>              > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>             raw HTML.
>              > It's much
>              >
>              > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>             Web then at
>              > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>             regularly. It has
>              > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>             array of
>              > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>             flexible enough
>              > (while retaining objects all the way).
>              >
>              > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>             much more
>              > natural
>              > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>             to solve the
>              > > issue of
>              > >
>              > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>              > >
>              > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>             from the loop.
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>             wrote:
>              > >
>              > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>             05:40:09 +0200:
>              > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>             vetting, I've
>              > > made many
>              > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>             examples.
>              > > It's now
>              > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>              > > >
>              > > >
>              > >
>              >
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>              >
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>              >
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>
>              >
>              > >
>              > >
>              > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>             excursion on switch?
>              > > it is not
>              > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>             feel the
>              > > need to
>              > > apologize for it.
>              > >
>              > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>             it's mentioned
>              > > at all.
>              > >
>              > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to not use
>              > smalltalk to
>              > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>             example you
>              > > give doesn't
>              > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>             read. on the
>              > > contrary.
>              > >
>              > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>             like
>              > > smalltalk is more
>              > > typing.
>              > >
>              > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>             with html given
>              > > to me by
>              > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>              > >
>              > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>             is just
>              > > busywork. and
>              > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>             practical.
>              > >
>              > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>             api example.
>              > > that's
>              > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>             to get this to
>              > > run.
>              > >
>              > > greetings, martin.
>              > >
>              > > --
>              > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life
>              > > --
>              > > chief engineer eKita.co
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>              > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
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>              > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
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>              > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
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>              > > unix sysadmin
>              > > Martin Bähr working in china
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...

Herby Vojčík wrote:
>
>
> Richard Eng wrote:
>> Here's what I've concluded...
>>
>> With the exception of #FORM:, *none* of the other TAG:'s work. I have to
>> use '<<' with 'Silk TAG'. That's why all of your example break.

I looked at sources; you are mixing "Silk TAG:" with "aSilkInstance
TAG:". It is indeed true that "Silk TAG:" does not work (from the
examples it is clear, though, that it is useful), and on the other hand,
all "aSilkInstance TAG:" work (not just FORM:).

Nevertheless, it should be easy to use "Silk newStream TAG:" instead of
"Silk TAG:" and it should just work.

I will probably add direct "Silk TAG:".

> I just don't believe that, #FORM: has no specialty at all and Silk has
> unit tests which test lots of scenarios, including making some table
> using TAG and TAG: messages.
>
>> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:29:27 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>>
>> Where you use 'Silk open', I also get:
>>
>> Silk does not understand #open
>
> #open must just work, it's normally implemented (in DOMite, from which
> Silk inherits).
>
> You must have something wrong in your setup.
>
>> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:22:40 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>>
>> In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:
>>
>> Silk does not understand #TD:
>> *
>> *
>> (I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Eng wrote:
>> > Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the
>> cells in the
>> > table are not aligning correctly. This was never a
>> problem with the Web
>> > package.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>> >
>> > Oh, so simple:
>> >
>> > Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>> >
>> > Hmmm...
>> >
>> > Silk does not understand #TD:
>> >
>> > What's the correct way to add a label?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Richard Eng wrote:
>> > > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>> > a typical web
>> > > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>> > asked to
>> > > write/generate HTML.
>> > >
>> > > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>> > tutorial, I *will* be
>> > > examining Silk.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Richard Eng wrote:
>> > > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>> > HTMLCanvas.
>> > > For example,
>> > > >
>> > > > ||
>> > > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>> > > > '<form>
>> > > > <table>
>> > > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>> > > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>> > > type="password"></td></tr>
>> > > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>> > > > </table>
>> > > > </form>'
>> >
>> > Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>> > Silk:
>> >
>> > '#client-main' asSilk
>> > FORM
>> > TABLE
>> > TR: {
>> > Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>> > Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>> > TR: {
>> > Silk TD: 'Password'.
>> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>> > TR: {
>> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }
>>
>> This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct
>> pieces.
>>
>> >
>> > Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>> > pretty flexible
>> > in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>> > uses `TAG:
>> > content` convenient method heavily.
>> >
>> > (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>> > uppercase
>> > message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>> > programmatically
>> > > create
>> > > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what
>> I'm
>> > > familiar with;
>> > > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>> > > frameworks use
>> > > > HTML templates).
>> > > >
>> > > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>> > raw HTML.
>> > > It's much
>> > >
>> > > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>> > Web then at
>> > > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>> > regularly. It has
>> > > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>> > array of
>> > > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>> > flexible enough
>> > > (while retaining objects all the way).
>> > >
>> > > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>> > much more
>> > > natural
>> > > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>> > to solve the
>> > > > issue of
>> > > >
>> > > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>> > > >
>> > > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>> > from the loop.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>> > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>> > 05:40:09 +0200:
>> > > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>> > vetting, I've
>> > > > made many
>> > > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>> > examples.
>> > > > It's now
>> > > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
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>>
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>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> >
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>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
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>>
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>> > >
>> >
>> <<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;">http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/
>>
>> <<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;">http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/>
>>
>>
>> >
>> <<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;">http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/
>>
>> <<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fprogramming%2Fcomments%2F39e5cq%2Fa_gentle_introduction_to_amber%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHzIh-l4QOfHChMALF2ZVYKWViSaw';return true;">http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/39e5cq/a_gentle_introduction_to_amber/>>>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>> > excursion on switch?
>> > > > it is not
>> > > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>> > feel the
>> > > > need to
>> > > > apologize for it.
>> > > >
>> > > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>> > it's mentioned
>> > > > at all.
>> > > >
>> > > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to
>> not use
>> > > smalltalk to
>> > > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>> > example you
>> > > > give doesn't
>> > > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>> > read. on the
>> > > > contrary.
>> > > >
>> > > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>> > like
>> > > > smalltalk is more
>> > > > typing.
>> > > >
>> > > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>> > with html given
>> > > > to me by
>> > > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>> > > >
>> > > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>> > is just
>> > > > busywork. and
>> > > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>> > practical.
>> > > >
>> > > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>> > api example.
>> > > > that's
>> > > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>> > to get this to
>> > > > run.
>> > > >
>> > > > greetings, martin.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic
>> life
>> > > > --
>> > > > chief engineer eKita.co
>> > > > pike programmer <a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">pike.lysator.liu.se
>> <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>> > <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se> <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>> > > <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>> > > > <a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">caudium.net <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net> <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
>> <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
>> > <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
>> > > <a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">societyserver.org <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>> > > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>> > > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>> <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>> > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>> > > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>> > > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>> <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>> > <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org> <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>> > > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
>> <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>> > <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>> > > <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org> <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>> > > > <a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">realss.com <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com> <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
>> <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
>> > <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
>> > > > unix sysadmin
>> > > > Martin Bähr working in china
>> > <a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>> > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>
>> > > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>> > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>>
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>

Richard Eng wrote:
> I notice that the class-side #doesNotUnderstand: is slightly different
> from the instance-side #doesNotUnderstand:, which is why your examples
> break. You're right, when I do 'Silk new TAG:', it works.

I told `Silk newStream TAG:`, `Silk new TAG:` does something slightly
different (of course, '#client-div' asSilk is also an instance, that's
why there the TAG: form works as well; also the last example uses
instances, so AfAICT, it is not breaking (you wrote all of them break)).

> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:44:46 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Herby Vojčík wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> Here's what I've concluded...
>      >>
>      >> With the exception of #FORM:, *none* of the other TAG:'s work. I
>     have to
>      >> use '<<' with 'Silk TAG'. That's why all of your example break.
>
>     I looked at sources; you are mixing "Silk TAG:" with "aSilkInstance
>     TAG:". It is indeed true that "Silk TAG:" does not work (from the
>     examples it is clear, though, that it is useful), and on the other
>     hand,
>     all "aSilkInstance TAG:" work (not just FORM:).
>
>     Nevertheless, it should be easy to use "Silk newStream TAG:" instead of
>     "Silk TAG:" and it should just work.
>
>     I will probably add direct "Silk TAG:".
>
>      > I just don't believe that, #FORM: has no specialty at all and
>     Silk has
>      > unit tests which test lots of scenarios, including making some table
>      > using TAG and TAG: messages.
>      >
>      >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:29:27 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      >>
>      >> Where you use 'Silk open', I also get:
>      >>
>      >> Silk does not understand #open
>      >
>      > #open must just work, it's normally implemented (in DOMite, from
>     which
>      > Silk inherits).
>      >
>      > You must have something wrong in your setup.
>      >
>      >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:22:40 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      >>
>      >> In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:
>      >>
>      >> Silk does not understand #TD:
>      >> *
>      >> *
>      >> (I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)
>      >>
>      >> Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> > Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the
>      >> cells in the
>      >> > table are not aligning correctly. This was never a
>      >> problem with the Web
>      >> > package.
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> >
>      >> > Oh, so simple:
>      >> >
>      >> > Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> >
>      >> > Hmmm...
>      >> >
>      >> > Silk does not understand #TD:
>      >> >
>      >> > What's the correct way to add a label?
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> > Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> > > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>      >> > a typical web
>      >> > > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>      >> > asked to
>      >> > > write/generate HTML.
>      >> > >
>      >> > > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>      >> > tutorial, I *will* be
>      >> > > examining Silk.
>      >> > >
>      >> > >
>      >> > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      >> > >
>      >> > >
>      >> > >
>      >> > > Richard Eng wrote:
>      >> > > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>      >> > HTMLCanvas.
>      >> > > For example,
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > ||
>      >> > > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      >> > > > '<form>
>      >> > > > <table>
>      >> > > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      >> > > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>      >> > > type="password"></td></tr>
>      >> > > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      >> > > > </table>
>      >> > > > </form>'
>      >> >
>      >> > Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>      >> > Silk:
>      >> >
>      >> > '#client-main' asSilk
>      >> > FORM
>      >> > TABLE
>      >> > TR: {
>      >> > Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>      >> > Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>      >> > TR: {
>      >> > Silk TD: 'Password'.
>      >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>      >> > TR: {
>      >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }
>      >>
>      >> This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct
>      >> pieces.
>      >>
>      >> >
>      >> > Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>      >> > pretty flexible
>      >> > in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>      >> > uses `TAG:
>      >> > content` convenient method heavily.
>      >> >
>      >> > (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>      >> > uppercase
>      >> > message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>      >> >
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>      >> > programmatically
>      >> > > create
>      >> > > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what
>      >> I'm
>      >> > > familiar with;
>      >> > > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>      >> > > frameworks use
>      >> > > > HTML templates).
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>      >> > raw HTML.
>      >> > > It's much
>      >> > >
>      >> > > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>      >> > Web then at
>      >> > > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>      >> > regularly. It has
>      >> > > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>      >> > array of
>      >> > > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>      >> > flexible enough
>      >> > > (while retaining objects all the way).
>      >> > >
>      >> > > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>      >> > much more
>      >> > > natural
>      >> > > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>      >> > to solve the
>      >> > > > issue of
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>      >> > from the loop.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>      >> > wrote:
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>      >> > 05:40:09 +0200:
>      >> > > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>      >> > vetting, I've
>      >> > > > made many
>      >> > > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>      >> > examples.
>      >> > > > It's now
>      >> > > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      >> > > > >
>      >> > > > >
>      >> > > >
>      >> > >
>      >> >
>      >>
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>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> >
>      >> > >
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>      >> > excursion on switch?
>      >> > > > it is not
>      >> > > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>      >> > feel the
>      >> > > > need to
>      >> > > > apologize for it.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>      >> > it's mentioned
>      >> > > > at all.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to
>      >> not use
>      >> > > smalltalk to
>      >> > > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>      >> > example you
>      >> > > > give doesn't
>      >> > > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>      >> > read. on the
>      >> > > > contrary.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>      >> > like
>      >> > > > smalltalk is more
>      >> > > > typing.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>      >> > with html given
>      >> > > > to me by
>      >> > > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>      >> > is just
>      >> > > > busywork. and
>      >> > > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>      >> > practical.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>      >> > api example.
>      >> > > > that's
>      >> > > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>      >> > to get this to
>      >> > > > run.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > greetings, martin.
>      >> > > >
>      >> > > > --
>      >> > > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic
>      >> life
>      >> > > > --
>      >> > > > chief engineer eKita.co
>      >> > > > pike programmer <a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">pike.lysator.liu.se
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>      >> > > <a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">societyserver.org <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
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>      >> > > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>      >> > > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
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>      >> > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>      >> > > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>      >> > > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
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>      >> > > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
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>      >> > > > <a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">realss.com <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com> <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
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>      >> > > > unix sysadmin
>      >> > > > Martin Bähr working in china
>      >> > <a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
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>      >> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
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'#client-main' asSilk
  FORM
    TABLE in: [ :table |
      table TR in: [ :row |
        row TD: 'Username:'.
        row TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' ].
      table TR in: [ :row |
        row TD: 'Password:'.
        row TD INPUT: {'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password'} ].
      table TR TD INPUT: {'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay'} ]

Richard Eng wrote:
> You're right. The last example did not break.

Released 0.1.4 with `Silk TAG:` working.

> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 15:25:42 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Richard Eng wrote:
>      > I notice that the class-side #doesNotUnderstand: is slightly
>     different
>      > from the instance-side #doesNotUnderstand:, which is why your
>     examples
>      > break. You're right, when I do 'Silk new TAG:', it works.
>
>     I told `Silk newStream TAG:`, `Silk new TAG:` does something slightly
>     different (of course, '#client-div' asSilk is also an instance, that's
>     why there the TAG: form works as well; also the last example uses
>     instances, so AfAICT, it is not breaking (you wrote all of them
>     break)).
>
>      > On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:44:46 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Herby Vojčík wrote:
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> Here's what I've concluded...
>      > >>
>      > >> With the exception of #FORM:, *none* of the other TAG:'s work. I
>      > have to
>      > >> use '<<' with 'Silk TAG'. That's why all of your example break.
>      >
>      > I looked at sources; you are mixing "Silk TAG:" with "aSilkInstance
>      > TAG:". It is indeed true that "Silk TAG:" does not work (from the
>      > examples it is clear, though, that it is useful), and on the other
>      > hand,
>      > all "aSilkInstance TAG:" work (not just FORM:).
>      >
>      > Nevertheless, it should be easy to use "Silk newStream TAG:"
>     instead of
>      > "Silk TAG:" and it should just work.
>      >
>      > I will probably add direct "Silk TAG:".
>      >
>      > > I just don't believe that, #FORM: has no specialty at all and
>      > Silk has
>      > > unit tests which test lots of scenarios, including making some
>     table
>      > > using TAG and TAG: messages.
>      > >
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:29:27 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >> Where you use 'Silk open', I also get:
>      > >>
>      > >> Silk does not understand #open
>      > >
>      > > #open must just work, it's normally implemented (in DOMite, from
>      > which
>      > > Silk inherits).
>      > >
>      > > You must have something wrong in your setup.
>      > >
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:22:40 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >> In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:
>      > >>
>      > >> Silk does not understand #TD:
>      > >> *
>      > >> *
>      > >> (I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)
>      > >>
>      > >> Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >> Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the
>      > >> cells in the
>      > >> > table are not aligning correctly. This was never a
>      > >> problem with the Web
>      > >> > package.
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Oh, so simple:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Hmmm...
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Silk does not understand #TD:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > What's the correct way to add a label?
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>      > >> > a typical web
>      > >> > > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>      > >> > asked to
>      > >> > > write/generate HTML.
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>      > >> > tutorial, I *will* be
>      > >> > > examining Silk.
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>      > >> > HTMLCanvas.
>      > >> > > For example,
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > ||
>      > >> > > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      > >> > > > '<form>
>      > >> > > > <table>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>      > >> > > type="password"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > </table>
>      > >> > > > </form>'
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>      > >> > Silk:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > '#client-main' asSilk
>      > >> > FORM
>      > >> > TABLE
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD: 'Password'.
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }
>      > >>
>      > >> This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct
>      > >> pieces.
>      > >>
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>      > >> > pretty flexible
>      > >> > in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>      > >> > uses `TAG:
>      > >> > content` convenient method heavily.
>      > >> >
>      > >> > (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>      > >> > uppercase
>      > >> > message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>      > >> >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>      > >> > programmatically
>      > >> > > create
>      > >> > > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what
>      > >> I'm
>      > >> > > familiar with;
>      > >> > > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>      > >> > > frameworks use
>      > >> > > > HTML templates).
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>      > >> > raw HTML.
>      > >> > > It's much
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>      > >> > Web then at
>      > >> > > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>      > >> > regularly. It has
>      > >> > > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>      > >> > array of
>      > >> > > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>      > >> > flexible enough
>      > >> > > (while retaining objects all the way).
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>      > >> > much more
>      > >> > > natural
>      > >> > > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>      > >> > to solve the
>      > >> > > > issue of
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>      > >> > from the loop.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>      > >> > wrote:
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>      > >> > 05:40:09 +0200:
>      > >> > > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>      > >> > vetting, I've
>      > >> > > > made many
>      > >> > > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>      > >> > examples.
>      > >> > > > It's now
>      > >> > > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      > >> > > > >
>      > >> > > > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> >
>      > >>
>      >
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>
>      >
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >> >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > the article reads nicely, but i wonder, why the
>      > >> > excursion on switch?
>      > >> > > > it is not
>      > >> > > > specific to amber, and it gives the impression that you
>      > >> > feel the
>      > >> > > > need to
>      > >> > > > apologize for it.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > this should be an aside linked to a separate post, if
>      > >> > it's mentioned
>      > >> > > > at all.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > what i would like to know is, if there is a way to
>      > >> not use
>      > >> > > smalltalk to
>      > >> > > > generate html, but just have it as plain raw html. the
>      > >> > example you
>      > >> > > > give doesn't
>      > >> > > > demonstrate that the smalltalk variant is easier to
>      > >> > read. on the
>      > >> > > > contrary.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > i find plain html much nicer to read, and it even looks
>      > >> > like
>      > >> > > > smalltalk is more
>      > >> > > > typing.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > also, in day to day work, i very often have to deal
>      > >> > with html given
>      > >> > > > to me by
>      > >> > > > others. i don't write html, our designers do.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > having to translate the designers output into smalltalk
>      > >> > is just
>      > >> > > > busywork. and
>      > >> > > > having to update for changes even worse. it's just not
>      > >> > practical.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > finally though, i really like that you are using a REST
>      > >> > api example.
>      > >> > > > that's
>      > >> > > > right up my alley, and when i find some time i'll try
>      > >> > to get this to
>      > >> > > > run.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > greetings, martin.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > --
>      > >> > > > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic
>      > >> life
>      > >> > > > --
>      > >> > > > chief engineer eKita.co
>      > >> > > > pike programmer <a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">pike.lysator.liu.se
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>      > >> <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se> <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>      > >> > > <<a href="http://pike.lysator.liu.se" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fpike.lysator.liu.se\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEvQ03oa3TB9z8nTXi-CkmrjqorFA';return true;">http://pike.lysator.liu.se>
>      > >> > > > <a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">caudium.net <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net> <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
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>      > >> <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://caudium.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcaudium.net\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEYzslt9t1j0dGxb_Ka8faLOGHwqQ';return true;">http://caudium.net>
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>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>      > >> > > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNE_5aJ_mdZkvSrOv1cEqLp4WlWhag';return true;">http://societyserver.org>
>      > >> > > > secretary <a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">beijinglug.org <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
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>      > >> <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>      > >> > > <<a href="http://beijinglug.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fbeijinglug.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGcMonCqhzNZNa3GwWBKaTiTm8E4Q';return true;">http://beijinglug.org>
>      > >> > > > mentor <a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">fossasia.org <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>     <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>      > <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>      > >> <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org> <<a href="http://fossasia.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Ffossasia.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFMwaBnF0Iu9Prg3-iLxZ5BhKSD_g';return true;">http://fossasia.org>
>      > >> > > > foresight developer <a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">foresightlinux.org
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>      > >> <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>      > >> > > <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org> <<a href="http://foresightlinux.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fforesightlinux.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHaJ9_Y9lcY21yw_D2lZAE3mu_Jtg';return true;">http://foresightlinux.org>
>      > >> > > > <a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">realss.com <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com> <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
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>      > >> <<a href="http://realss.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Frealss.com\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHih6WMCaKD68bQT72_Uh4uQD5eQ';return true;">http://realss.com>
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>      > >> > > > unix sysadmin
>      > >> > > > Martin Bähr working in china
>      > >> > <a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
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>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
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>      > >> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
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>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>>
>      > >> > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>>>
>      > >> > > > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>
>      > >> <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
>      > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>>>
>      > >> > <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/
>     <<a href="http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fsocietyserver.org%2Fmbaehr%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFHqg9eOMnanxXjpobL7Vb80JtF5g';return true;">http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/>
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I think I like this style best:

'#client-main' asSilk
  FORM
    TABLE in: [ :table |
      table TR in: [ :row |
        row TD: 'Username:'.
        row TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' ].
      table TR in: [ :row |
        row TD: 'Password:'.
        row TD INPUT: {'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password'} ].
      table TR TD INPUT: {'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay'} ]

But I'm puzzled by 'FORM' and 'TABLE'. You don't actually say what these are shortcuts for, and I can't figure out how to add an attribute, eg, 'id'->'myForm1'. I've tried various things to no avail.

On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 16:00:24 UTC-4, Herby wrote:

Richard Eng wrote:
> You're right. The last example did not break.

Released 0.1.4 with `Silk TAG:` working.

> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 15:25:42 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>
>
>
>     Richard Eng wrote:
>      > I notice that the class-side #doesNotUnderstand: is slightly
>     different
>      > from the instance-side #doesNotUnderstand:, which is why your
>     examples
>      > break. You're right, when I do 'Silk new TAG:', it works.
>
>     I told `Silk newStream TAG:`, `Silk new TAG:` does something slightly
>     different (of course, '#client-div' asSilk is also an instance, that's
>     why there the TAG: form works as well; also the last example uses
>     instances, so AfAICT, it is not breaking (you wrote all of them
>     break)).
>
>      > On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:44:46 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Herby Vojčík wrote:
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> Here's what I've concluded...
>      > >>
>      > >> With the exception of #FORM:, *none* of the other TAG:'s work. I
>      > have to
>      > >> use '<<' with 'Silk TAG'. That's why all of your example break.
>      >
>      > I looked at sources; you are mixing "Silk TAG:" with "aSilkInstance
>      > TAG:". It is indeed true that "Silk TAG:" does not work (from the
>      > examples it is clear, though, that it is useful), and on the other
>      > hand,
>      > all "aSilkInstance TAG:" work (not just FORM:).
>      >
>      > Nevertheless, it should be easy to use "Silk newStream TAG:"
>     instead of
>      > "Silk TAG:" and it should just work.
>      >
>      > I will probably add direct "Silk TAG:".
>      >
>      > > I just don't believe that, #FORM: has no specialty at all and
>      > Silk has
>      > > unit tests which test lots of scenarios, including making some
>     table
>      > > using TAG and TAG: messages.
>      > >
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:29:27 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >> Where you use 'Silk open', I also get:
>      > >>
>      > >> Silk does not understand #open
>      > >
>      > > #open must just work, it's normally implemented (in DOMite, from
>      > which
>      > > Silk inherits).
>      > >
>      > > You must have something wrong in your setup.
>      > >
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 12:22:40 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >> In all of your code examples where you use #TD:, I get:
>      > >>
>      > >> Silk does not understand #TD:
>      > >> *
>      > >> *
>      > >> (I'm just cut-and-pasting into my application.)
>      > >>
>      > >> Am I doing something wrong, or is your article incorrect?
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2015 04:48:54 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >>
>      > >> Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > Hmmm, something's wrong. Even with 'Silk TD LABEL:', the
>      > >> cells in the
>      > >> > table are not aligning correctly. This was never a
>      > >> problem with the Web
>      > >> > package.
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:53:23 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Oh, so simple:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Silk TD LABEL: 'Username:'
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 20:51:04 UTC-4, Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Hmmm...
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Silk does not understand #TD:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > What's the correct way to add a label?
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:07:05 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > > I don't disagree with you, but as Martin pointed out, in
>      > >> > a typical web
>      > >> > > application project, you are *given* HTML; you are not
>      > >> > asked to
>      > >> > > write/generate HTML.
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > Nevertheless, in the next installment of the Amber
>      > >> > tutorial, I *will* be
>      > >> > > examining Silk.
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 10:50:36 UTC-4, Herby wrote:
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > Richard Eng wrote:
>      > >> > > > It's very easy to insert raw HTML instead of using
>      > >> > HTMLCanvas.
>      > >> > > For example,
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > ||
>      > >> > > > '#client-main'asJQuery append:
>      > >> > > > '<form>
>      > >> > > > <table>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td>Username:</td><td><input name="name"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td>Password:</td><td><input name="password"
>      > >> > > type="password"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > <tr><td><input type="submit" value="Okay"></td></tr>
>      > >> > > > </table>
>      > >> > > > </form>'
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Just in case, above thing could probably written this way in
>      > >> > Silk:
>      > >> >
>      > >> > '#client-main' asSilk
>      > >> > FORM
>      > >> > TABLE
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD: 'Username:'.
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: 'name'->'name' };
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD: 'Password'.
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'name'->'password'. 'type'->'password' }};
>      > >> > TR: {
>      > >> > Silk TD INPUT: { 'type'->'submit'. 'value'->'Okay' }
>      > >>
>      > >> This is not correct code. See the medium article for correct
>      > >> pieces.
>      > >>
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Of course, it could be written other ways, too, as it is
>      > >> > pretty flexible
>      > >> > in ways how to insert content into an element. This piece
>      > >> > uses `TAG:
>      > >> > content` convenient method heavily.
>      > >> >
>      > >> > (uppercase needed, as DNU is used to generate tags from any
>      > >> > uppercase
>      > >> > message, so you can insert you custom tags as well)
>      > >> >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > I just thought it'd be nice to use Smalltalk to
>      > >> > programmatically
>      > >> > > create
>      > >> > > > the HTML. I used Seaside many years ago, so it's what
>      > >> I'm
>      > >> > > familiar with;
>      > >> > > > in Seaside, there was no other way to use HTML (most web
>      > >> > > frameworks use
>      > >> > > > HTML templates).
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > In fact, for all future work, I'm inclined to inject
>      > >> > raw HTML.
>      > >> > > It's much
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > IMNSHO, this is unhappy inclination. I very hope if not
>      > >> > Web then at
>      > >> > > least Silk allows you to use objects, not strings
>      > >> > regularly. It has
>      > >> > > different approach, maybe having simple methods returning
>      > >> > array of
>      > >> > > elements / a wrapped DocumentFragment could be seen as
>      > >> > flexible enough
>      > >> > > (while retaining objects all the way).
>      > >> > >
>      > >> > > > more flexible than the programmatic approach and is
>      > >> > much more
>      > >> > > natural
>      > >> > > > for Amber (than it is for Pharo). However, I still need
>      > >> > to solve the
>      > >> > > > issue of
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > (('#myForm1 *'asJQuery)filter:':input')
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > crapping out on me when a false value causes a break
>      > >> > from the loop.
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > On Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:24:27 UTC-4, Martin Bähr
>      > >> > wrote:
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > > > Excerpts from Richard Eng's message of 2015-06-11
>      > >> > 05:40:09 +0200:
>      > >> > > > > Thanks to Herby's (very extensive) proofreading and
>      > >> > vetting, I've
>      > >> > > > made many
>      > >> > > > > substantial changes to the article, esp. the coding
>      > >> > examples.
>      > >> > > > It's now
>      > >> > > > > ready for publishing and I've posted it at Reddit:
>      > >> > > > >
>      > >> > > > >
>      > >> > > >
>      > >> > >
>      > >> >
>      > >>
>      >
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