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A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

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Esteban A. Maringolo

May 03, 2017; 12:41pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

Hi Phil,

I don't like the diamond in the back, nor the colors (looks old).
Also the square brackets and vertical bar are not horizontally centered.

I still like the concept though. I couldn't see the golden ratio. Can
you overlay it?

Regards!
Esteban A. Maringolo

2017-05-03 9:38 GMT-03:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

> I got a shot at this and this gives the following.
>
> What we should do:
>
> - ensure the [|] shape has the gold ratio (so it is naturally attractive).
> - make sure the square is positioned so that the golden ratio is also
> all over the place.
>
> Color wise, I went for blue because Smalltalk has a natural elegance
> and goes for no crap.
>
> Phil
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:49 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
>>> A decade+ ago I created the one attached, and I've seen used in some
>>> Smalltalk related sites. I still like it but it can be done better.
>>
>> *[|]* seems to be a popular choice. I got two votes for this at LinkedIn.
>>
>> It looks rather plain to me, though. It lacks sizzle.
>>
>> Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition.
>> People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the
>> best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.
>>
>> For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the
>> following:
>>
>> o ESUG
>> o the Pharo project
>> o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
>> o Cincom
>> o Instantiations
>> o GemTalk
>>
>> Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.
>>
>> If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission
>> deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary
>> of my TechBeacon article, " How learning Smalltalk can make you a better
>> developer
>> <https://techbeacon.com/how-learning-smalltalk-can-make-you-better-developer>
>> ").
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4945390.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>

... [show rest of quote]

Ben Coman

May 03, 2017; 12:42pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by horrido

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:49 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
> A decade+ ago I created the one attached, and I've seen used in some
> Smalltalk related sites. I still like it but it can be done better.

*[|]* seems to be a popular choice. I got two votes for this at LinkedIn.

It looks rather plain to me, though. It lacks sizzle.

Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition.
People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the
best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.

For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the
following:

o ESUG
o the Pharo project
o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
o Cincom
o Instantiations
o GemTalk

I half like the idea of a Smalltalk logo, but logos are most effective when they are widely used.

Once we have this "official" logo, how do you expect it to be used?

Do you expect organisations to use it in their literature as part of their branding identity?

Should it get equal weighting as their corporate identity?

Will all these commercial entities feel the logo strengthens their position in solidarity,

or dilutes their position. You know that some our community differentiate Pharo from Smalltalk.

Also an important question to determine early on,

how will copyright and trademark rights of the logo be controlled?

cheers -ben

Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.

If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission
deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary
of my TechBeacon article, " How learning Smalltalk can make you a better
developer
<https://techbeacon.com/how-learning-smalltalk-can-make-you-better-developer>
").

philippeback

May 03, 2017; 2:16pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo

SVG file. Works in Inkscape.

I wanted the [ | ] to be a golden rectangle.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

1.618 something
(1 + 5 sqrt) / 2

Look at how the reciprocal of the golden ratio looks like [|]

We should have GoldenRatio in Float class.

initialize
"Float initialize"
"Constants from Computer Approximations, pp. 182-183:
Pi = 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288
Pi/2 = 1.57079632679489661923132169163975144
Pi*2 = 6.28318530717958647692528676655900576
Pi/180 = 0.01745329251994329576923690768488612
2.0 ln = 0.69314718055994530941723212145817657
2.0 sqrt = 1.41421356237309504880168872420969808"

Pi := 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288.
Halfpi := Pi / 2.0.
Twopi := Pi * 2.0.
ThreePi := Pi * 3.0.
RadiansPerDegree := Pi / 180.0.

Ln2 := 0.69314718055994530941723212145817657.
Ln10 := 10.0 ln.
Sqrt2 := 1.41421356237309504880168872420969808.
E := 2.718281828459045235360287471353.

Epsilon := 0.000000000001. "Defines precision of mathematical functions"

MaxVal := 1.7976931348623157e308.
MaxValLn := 709.782712893384.
MinValLogBase2 := -1074.

Infinity := MaxVal * MaxVal.
NegativeInfinity := 0.0 - Infinity.
NaN := Infinity - Infinity.
NegativeZero := 1.0 / Infinity negated.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>
> I don't like the diamond in the back, nor the colors (looks old).
> Also the square brackets and vertical bar are not horizontally centered.
>
> I still like the concept though. I couldn't see the golden ratio. Can
> you overlay it?
>
> Regards!
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>
> 2017-05-03 9:38 GMT-03:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>> I got a shot at this and this gives the following.
>>
>> What we should do:
>>
>> - ensure the [|] shape has the gold ratio (so it is naturally attractive).
>> - make sure the square is positioned so that the golden ratio is also
>> all over the place.
>>
>> Color wise, I went for blue because Smalltalk has a natural elegance
>> and goes for no crap.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:49 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
>>>> A decade+ ago I created the one attached, and I've seen used in some
>>>> Smalltalk related sites. I still like it but it can be done better.
>>>
>>> *[|]* seems to be a popular choice. I got two votes for this at LinkedIn.
>>>
>>> It looks rather plain to me, though. It lacks sizzle.
>>>
>>> Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition.
>>> People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the
>>> best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.
>>>
>>> For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> o ESUG
>>> o the Pharo project
>>> o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
>>> o Cincom
>>> o Instantiations
>>> o GemTalk
>>>
>>> Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.
>>>
>>> If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission
>>> deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary
>>> of my TechBeacon article, " How learning Smalltalk can make you a better
>>> developer
>>> <https://techbeacon.com/how-learning-smalltalk-can-make-you-better-developer>
>>> ").
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4945390.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

SmalltalkLogo.svg (3K) Download Attachment

SmalltalkLogo.png (8K) Download Attachment

SmalltalkLogo2.svg (6K) Download Attachment

horrido

May 03, 2017; 6:48pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by philippeback

I have to say, I really like it! Is this Logo Candidate Entry #2 ?

philippeback wrote

I got a shot at this and this gives the following.

What we should do:

- ensure the [|] shape has the gold ratio (so it is naturally attractive).
- make sure the square is positioned so that the golden ratio is also
all over the place.

Color wise, I went for blue because Smalltalk has a natural elegance
and goes for no crap.

Phil

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:49 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
>> A decade+ ago I created the one attached, and I've seen used in some
>> Smalltalk related sites. I still like it but it can be done better.
>
> *[|]* seems to be a popular choice. I got two votes for this at LinkedIn.
>
> It looks rather plain to me, though. It lacks sizzle.
>
> Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition.
> People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the
> best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.
>
> For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the
> following:
>
> o ESUG
> o the Pharo project
> o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
> o Cincom
> o Instantiations
> o GemTalk
>
> Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.
>
> If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission
> deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary
> of my TechBeacon article, " How learning Smalltalk can make you a better
> developer
> <https://techbeacon.com/how-learning-smalltalk-can-make-you-better-developer>
> ").
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4945390.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

SmalltalkLogo.png (7K) <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4945411/0/SmalltalkLogo.png>
... [show rest of quote]

... [show rest of quote]

horrido

May 03, 2017; 7:00pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by philippeback

I prefer your first attempt (just centre the [|] against the square). Your first design instinct was correct.

I prefer [|] having the same height.

I like the blue colour but you may experiment with different colours.

philippeback wrote

SVG file. Works in Inkscape.

I wanted the [ | ] to be a golden rectangle.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

1.618 something
(1 + 5 sqrt) / 2

Look at how the reciprocal of the golden ratio looks like [|]

We should have GoldenRatio in Float class.

initialize
"Float initialize"
"Constants from Computer Approximations, pp. 182-183:
Pi = 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288
Pi/2 = 1.57079632679489661923132169163975144
Pi*2 = 6.28318530717958647692528676655900576
Pi/180 = 0.01745329251994329576923690768488612
2.0 ln = 0.69314718055994530941723212145817657
2.0 sqrt = 1.41421356237309504880168872420969808"

Pi := 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288.
Halfpi := Pi / 2.0.
Twopi := Pi * 2.0.
ThreePi := Pi * 3.0.
RadiansPerDegree := Pi / 180.0.

Ln2 := 0.69314718055994530941723212145817657.
Ln10 := 10.0 ln.
Sqrt2 := 1.41421356237309504880168872420969808.
E := 2.718281828459045235360287471353.

Epsilon := 0.000000000001. "Defines precision of mathematical functions"

MaxVal := 1.7976931348623157e308.
MaxValLn := 709.782712893384.
MinValLogBase2 := -1074.

Infinity := MaxVal * MaxVal.
NegativeInfinity := 0.0 - Infinity.
NaN := Infinity - Infinity.
NegativeZero := 1.0 / Infinity negated.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> I don't like the diamond in the back, nor the colors (looks old).
> Also the square brackets and vertical bar are not horizontally centered.
>
> I still like the concept though. I couldn't see the golden ratio. Can
> you overlay it?
>
> Regards!
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>
> 2017-05-03 9:38 GMT-03:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>> I got a shot at this and this gives the following.
>>
>> What we should do:
>>
>> - ensure the [|] shape has the gold ratio (so it is naturally attractive).
>> - make sure the square is positioned so that the golden ratio is also
>> all over the place.
>>
>> Color wise, I went for blue because Smalltalk has a natural elegance
>> and goes for no crap.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:49 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
>>>> A decade+ ago I created the one attached, and I've seen used in some
>>>> Smalltalk related sites. I still like it but it can be done better.
>>>
>>> *[|]* seems to be a popular choice. I got two votes for this at LinkedIn.
>>>
>>> It looks rather plain to me, though. It lacks sizzle.
>>>
>>> Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition.
>>> People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the
>>> best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.
>>>
>>> For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> o ESUG
>>> o the Pharo project
>>> o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
>>> o Cincom
>>> o Instantiations
>>> o GemTalk
>>>
>>> Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.
>>>
>>> If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission
>>> deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary
>>> of my TechBeacon article, " How learning Smalltalk can make you a better
>>> developer
>>> <https://techbeacon.com/how-learning-smalltalk-can-make-you-better-developer>
>>> ").
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4945390.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>
>

SmalltalkLogo.svg (3K) <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4945437/0/SmalltalkLogo.svg>
SmalltalkLogo.png (8K) <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4945437/1/SmalltalkLogo.png>
SmalltalkLogo2.svg (6K) <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4945437/2/SmalltalkLogo2.svg>
... [show rest of quote]

... [show rest of quote]

horrido

May 03, 2017; 7:13pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

I expect it to be used in exactly the same way other languages like Clojure, Elixir, Kotlin, and Julia use theirs. Of course, whether these logos are widely used has more to do with the languages' promotional efforts.

As for the commercial entities, they may choose to use it or not. This depends on their marketing approaches. Cincom doesn't have a product logo for VisualWorks, nor does Instantiations for VA Smalltalk, but GemTalk does for GemStone/S. It's entirely up to them.

I think the logo can, and should, be used whenever the presentation is not product-specific.

I wonder how other languages control their copyrights.

Ben Coman wrote

I half like the idea of a Smalltalk logo, but logos are most effective when
they are widely used.
Once we have this "official" logo, how do you expect it to be used?
Do you expect organisations to use it in their literature as part of their
branding identity?
Should it get equal weighting as their corporate identity?
Will all these commercial entities feel the logo strengthens their position
in solidarity,
or dilutes their position. You know that some our community differentiate
Pharo from Smalltalk.

Also an important question to determine early on,
how will copyright and trademark rights of the logo be controlled?

cheers -ben

... [show rest of quote]

Tudor Girba-2

May 04, 2017; 6:12am

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

Hi,

I find it fascinating how the discussion about Smalltalk dialects happen in a Pharo mailing list :).

One thing should be clear though: Pharo has a distinct identity depicted by a clear logo. This will not change.

Cheers,
Tudor

> On May 3, 2017, at 9:13 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I expect it to be used in exactly the same way other languages like Clojure,
> Elixir, Kotlin, and Julia use theirs. Of course, whether these logos are
> widely used has more to do with the languages' promotional efforts.
>
> As for the commercial entities, they may choose to use it or not. This
> depends on their marketing approaches. Cincom doesn't have a product logo
> for VisualWorks, nor does Instantiations for VA Smalltalk, but GemTalk does
> for GemStone/S. It's entirely up to them.
>
> I think the logo can, and should, be used whenever the presentation is *not
> product-specific*.
>
> I wonder how other languages control their copyrights.
>
>
>
> Ben Coman wrote
>> I half like the idea of a Smalltalk logo, but logos are most effective
>> when
>> they are widely used.
>> Once we have this "official" logo, how do you expect it to be used?
>> Do you expect organisations to use it in their literature as part of their
>> branding identity?
>> Should it get equal weighting as their corporate identity?
>> Will all these commercial entities feel the logo strengthens their
>> position
>> in solidarity,
>> or dilutes their position. You know that some our community differentiate
>> Pharo from Smalltalk.
>>
>> Also an important question to determine early on,
>> how will copyright and trademark rights of the logo be controlled?
>>
>> cheers -ben
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4945487.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

... [show rest of quote]

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

horrido

May 04, 2017; 11:40am

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by horrido

So no one thinks this is a good idea? Unless some people give me the green light, I shan't proceed.

horrido wrote

Maybe the best way to settle this is to have a Smalltalk logo competition. People can submit their logo designs and a panel of judges can decide on the best one. The winning entry would be the "official" Smalltalk logo.

For the panel of judges, I would like representatives from each of the following:

o ESUG
o the Pharo project
o the Squeak project (Alan Kay?)
o Cincom
o Instantiations
o GemTalk

Of course, my stylized hot air balloon would be Logo Candidate Entry #1.

If you think this is a good idea, I'll start organizing it. The submission deadline for the competition would be July 18, 2017 (the first anniversary of my TechBeacon article, "How learning Smalltalk can make you a better developer").
... [show rest of quote]

... [show rest of quote]

horrido

May 04, 2017; 11:45am

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2

Tudor Girba-2 wrote

I find it fascinating how the discussion about Smalltalk dialects happen in a Pharo mailing list :).

It's no mystery. Pharo has the biggest and most active Smalltalk user community, so you can't beat it for community outreach. Also, Pharo seems to be closely allied with ESUG.

Discussions here may percolate through to other user groups.

horrido

May 14, 2017; 1:40pm

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote

I think a stylised balloon is not bad, it just has to be less complex, more logo like, more abstract.

I've taken your comment to heart and I believe I've come up with the ideal logo:

Beautifully abstract. Nice and simple.

And it harkens back to the very famous BYTE 1981 cover without tying Smalltalk to the past. The hot air balloon motif for Smalltalk is universally recognized, and we cannot ignore it.

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

May 26, 2017; 8:33am

Re: A Logo Proposal for Smalltalk

> On 14 May 2017, at 15:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> I think a stylised balloon is not bad, it just has to be less complex,
>> more logo like, more abstract.
>
> I've taken your comment to heart and I believe I've come up with the ideal
> logo:
>
> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4947093/hotairballoon-red-300.png>
>
> Beautifully abstract. Nice and simple.

Yes, that is better.

Personally, I think it could be simpler still, but I would not know how to do that. Have you tried putting it in several contexts, like as icons of different sizes ?

> And it harkens back to the very famous BYTE 1981 cover *without tying
> Smalltalk to the past*. The hot air balloon motif for Smalltalk is
> universally recognized, and we cannot ignore it.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/A-Logo-Proposal-for-Smalltalk-tp4945122p4947093.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>