A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
 
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Dear Seasiders,
with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to all the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to make it so easy for new applications and developers :) The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which exists for HTML. So may I ask, o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas o is there anything you would have done completely different, if you could start all over again (without any backward compatibility) o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated /Klaus ----------- [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. Opera even supports the Ajax script. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>:
> Dear Seasiders, > > with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype > Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to all > the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to make it > so easy for new applications and developers :) > > The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which > exists for HTML. So may I ask, > > o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the code of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor instead of #a > o is there anything you would have done completely different, > if you could start all over again (without any backward compatibility) In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use them. > o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, > are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of WARenderCanvas. > o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated Can we see the code? ;-) Philippe > /Klaus > > ----------- > > [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant > Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. > > [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. > Opera even supports the Ajax script. > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote:
> 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>: >> Dear Seasiders, >> >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to all >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to make it >> so easy for new applications and developers :) >> >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, >> >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas > > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the code > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor > instead of #a That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, >> if you could start all over again (without any backward compatibility) > > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use them. Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first sight). And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name (example: #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides and responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view for Squeak which someone would recommend. >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time > > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of WARenderCanvas. Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated > > Can we see the code? ;-) Yes, Seasiders can :) /Klaus > Philippe > >> /Klaus >> >> ----------- >> >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. >> >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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Hi,
looks interesting, if you want to include IE users, have a look at Dojo gfx, http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/03/27/ajaxworld-and-sxsw-talks-on-dojogfx/ it is a cross-browser JavaScript library that will render SVG (where possible) and WML on IE. Might be interesting to think about Morphs rendering to a web page and events being sent back to the server. Matthias On 8/6/07, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote: > > 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>: > >> Dear Seasiders, > >> > >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype > >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to all > >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to make it > >> so easy for new applications and developers :) > >> > >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which > >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, > >> > >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas > > > > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the code > > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged > > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor > > instead of #a > > That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. > > >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, > >> if you could start all over again (without any backward compatibility) > > > > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use them. > > Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first > sight). > > And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name (example: > #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides and > responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view for > Squeak which someone would recommend. > > >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, > >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time > > > > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of WARenderCanvas. > > Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. > > >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated > > > > Can we see the code? ;-) > > Yes, Seasiders can :) > > /Klaus > > > Philippe > > > >> /Klaus > >> > >> ----------- > >> > >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant > >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. > >> > >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. > >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Seaside mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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2007/8/6, Matthias Berth <[hidden email]>:
> Hi, > > looks interesting, if you want to include IE users, have a look at Dojo gfx, > > http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/03/27/ajaxworld-and-sxsw-talks-on-dojogfx/ Or just use the Adobe Plugin. You need a Plugin for Flash, Quicktime and Java anyway. Philippe > it is a cross-browser JavaScript library that will render SVG (where > possible) and WML on IE. Might be interesting to think about Morphs > rendering to a web page and events being sent back to the server. > > Matthias > > On 8/6/07, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote: > > > 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>: > > >> Dear Seasiders, > > >> > > >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype > > >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to all > > >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to make it > > >> so easy for new applications and developers :) > > >> > > >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which > > >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, > > >> > > >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas > > > > > > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the code > > > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged > > > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor > > > instead of #a > > > > That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. > > > > >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, > > >> if you could start all over again (without any backward compatibility) > > > > > > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use them. > > > > Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first > > sight). > > > > And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name (example: > > #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides and > > responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view for > > Squeak which someone would recommend. > > > > >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, > > >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time > > > > > > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of WARenderCanvas. > > > > Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. > > > > >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated > > > > > > Can we see the code? ;-) > > > > Yes, Seasiders can :) > > > > /Klaus > > > > > Philippe > > > > > >> /Klaus > > >> > > >> ----------- > > >> > > >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant > > >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. > > >> > > >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. > > >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Seaside mailing list > > >> [hidden email] > > >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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In reply to this post by Matthias Berth-2
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:27:40 +0200, Matthias Berth wrote:
> Hi, > > looks interesting, if you want to include IE users, have a look at Dojo > gfx, > > http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/03/27/ajaxworld-and-sxsw-talks-on-dojogfx/ > > it is a cross-browser JavaScript library that will render SVG (where > possible) and WML on IE. Thank you Matthias, will check and see if that can be added that to the staging process. > Might be interesting to think about Morphs > rendering to a web page and events being sent back to the server. Go ahead, please :) Where/with what would you start to get an initial Aha? /Klaus > Matthias > > On 8/6/07, Klaus D. Witzel wrote: >> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote: >> > 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel: >> >> Dear Seasiders, >> >> >> >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype >> >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to >> all >> >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to >> make it >> >> so easy for new applications and developers :) >> >> >> >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one which >> >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, >> >> >> >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas >> > >> > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the code >> > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged >> > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor >> > instead of #a >> >> That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. >> >> >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, >> >> if you could start all over again (without any backward >> compatibility) >> > >> > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use >> them. >> >> Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first >> sight). >> >> And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name (example: >> #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides >> and >> responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view >> for >> Squeak which someone would recommend. >> >> >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, >> >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time >> > >> > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of WARenderCanvas. >> >> Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. >> >> >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated >> > >> > Can we see the code? ;-) >> >> Yes, Seasiders can :) >> >> /Klaus >> >> > Philippe >> > >> >> /Klaus >> >> >> >> ----------- >> >> >> >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant >> >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. >> >> >> >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. >> >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Seaside mailing list >> >> [hidden email] >> >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:34:16 +0200, Philippe Marschall wrote:
> 2007/8/6, Matthias Berth: >> Hi, >> >> looks interesting, if you want to include IE users, have a look at Dojo >> gfx, >> >> http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/03/27/ajaxworld-and-sxsw-talks-on-dojogfx/ > > Or just use the Adobe Plugin. You need a Plugin for Flash, Quicktime > and Java anyway. You're right and I considered mentioning/supporting Adobe's viewer as well. But though they say "Adobe has taken a leadership role in the development of the SVG" their download page tells "Please note that Adobe has announced that it will discontinue support for Adobe SVG Viewer on January 1, 2008" and I don't want to deal with a to-be-discontinued (even if free and good) viewer ... /Klaus > Philippe > >> it is a cross-browser JavaScript library that will render SVG (where >> possible) and WML on IE. Might be interesting to think about Morphs >> rendering to a web page and events being sent back to the server. >> >> Matthias >> >> On 8/6/07, Klaus D. Witzelwrote: >> > On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote: >> > > 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel: >> > >> Dear Seasiders, >> > >> >> > >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a >> prototype >> > >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks >> to all >> > >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to >> make it >> > >> so easy for new applications and developers :) >> > >> >> > >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one >> which >> > >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, >> > >> >> > >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas >> > > >> > > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the >> code >> > > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged >> > > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor >> > > instead of #a >> > >> > That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. >> > >> > >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, >> > >> if you could start all over again (without any backward >> compatibility) >> > > >> > > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use >> them. >> > >> > Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first >> > sight). >> > >> > And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name >> (example: >> > #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides >> and >> > responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view >> for >> > Squeak which someone would recommend. >> > >> > >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, >> > >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time >> > > >> > > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of >> WARenderCanvas. >> > >> > Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. >> > >> > >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated >> > > >> > > Can we see the code? ;-) >> > >> > Yes, Seasiders can :) >> > >> > /Klaus >> > >> > > Philippe >> > > >> > >> /Klaus >> > >> >> > >> ----------- >> > >> >> > >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant >> > >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. >> > >> >> > >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. >> > >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Seaside mailing list >> > >> [hidden email] >> > >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> > >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Seaside mailing list >> > [hidden email] >> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: A Seaside2 application for SVG clients
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In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:01:31 +0200, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:27:40 +0200, Matthias Berth wrote: >> Hi, >> >> looks interesting, if you want to include IE users, have a look at Dojo >> gfx, >> >> http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/03/27/ajaxworld-and-sxsw-talks-on-dojogfx/ >> >> it is a cross-browser JavaScript library that will render SVG (where >> possible) and WML on IE. > > Thank you Matthias, will check and see if that can be added that to the > staging process. > >> Might be interesting to think about Morphs >> rendering to a web page and events being sent back to the server. You might want to look at what the site now renders :) did an update a couple of minute ago - http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant In short, the app clones (per visitor) a Project template and visitors are asked for credentials which are checked with http://people.squeakfoundation.org/acct/ ... The context menu is ajax'ed and the corresponding component inserted into/removed from the DOM. But don't expect more than a demo, the menu does at yet not do anything ;-) Works with FF and Opera and as one would expect FF(SVG) != Opera(SVG) :| Have not looked at other browsers/viewers due to lack of time. Anyways, enjoy! > > Go ahead, please :) Where/with what would you start to get an initial > Aha? > > /Klaus > >> Matthias >> >> On 8/6/07, Klaus D. Witzel wrote: >>> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:02:16 +0200, Philippe Marschallwrote: >>> > 2007/8/6, Klaus D. Witzel: >>> >> Dear Seasiders, >>> >> >>> >> with only a handful of methods it was possible to create a prototype >>> >> Seaside2 application[1] which serves SVG clients[2]. Many thanks to >>> all >>> >> the Seaside developers which have put in such a lot of effort to >>> make it >>> >> so easy for new applications and developers :) >>> >> >>> >> The next logical step is to make a canvas for SVG, like the one >>> which >>> >> exists for HTML. So may I ask, >>> >> >>> >> o are there any do's and dont's for a Seaside renderer/canvas >>> > >>> > WAHtmlCanvas once had code that would automatically generated the >>> code >>> > of all the tag generation methods for you. One rule that has emerged >>> > is to use a the full name instead of the real element name: #anchor >>> > instead of #a >>> >>> That's a good point, keeping an eye on the coder's convenience. >>> >>> >> o is there anything you would have done completely different, >>> >> if you could start all over again (without any backward >>> compatibility) >>> > >>> > In WARenderCanvas? Yes, if we had better traits tools we would use >>> them. >>> >>> Yes, WARenderCanvas seems misplaced in the class hierarchy (on first >>> sight). >>> >>> And ProtocolBrowser, which separates by message-category name (example: >>> #html and #'form-buttons'), is not of much help for finding overrides >>> and >>> responsibilities of the sub/superclass. Is there any better tool/view >>> for >>> Squeak which someone would recommend. >>> >>> >> o if at some point in time #callback: would be added, >>> >> are there any drawbacks, things to be aware of ahead of time >>> > >>> > You'll probably end up duplicating the funtionality of >>> WARenderCanvas. >>> >>> Have you considered taking WARenderCanvas away from its superclass. >>> >>> >> o any other comment or suggestion, all appreciated >>> > >>> > Can we see the code? ;-) >>> >>> Yes, Seasiders can :) >>> >>> /Klaus >>> >>> > Philippe >>> > >>> >> /Klaus >>> >> >>> >> ----------- >>> >> >>> >> [1] http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/sextant >>> >> Does some effects on the builtin Seaside top.jpg image. >>> >> >>> >> [2] Firefox and Opera support SVG, Firefox only to "some" extent. >>> >> Opera even supports the Ajax script. >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Seaside mailing list >>> >> [hidden email] >>> >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Seaside mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >>> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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