[ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

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[ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
[ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes Mandatory screenshot

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5135/cmcapture1b.png

And this was build and test with John Squeak 5.8b3, so I do not sure work in others OS.
We could have Pier, Games , MathMorphs, Connectors, etc. FASTER

http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha.tgz

If some do not work, some of you send fixes and next time we have some better.

Pharopatas code is welcomed, I like work with our distant cousins.

Edgar


P.S. And for those who want Big Size....
23Mb Tar gzip


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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
Edgar,

On 8/27/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Mandatory screenshot
>
> http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5135/cmcapture1b.png

nice to have muO (musical Objects I think) preloaded in an image.
No need to figure out this for myself. A real time saver.

> And this was build and test with John Squeak 5.8b3, so I do not sure work in
> others OS.
> We could have Pier, Games , MathMorphs, Connectors, etc. FASTER
>
> http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha.tgz

this is just based on Squeak trunk, no unloading of packages first, right?

where can I download a MS Windows cog VM?

> If some do not work, some of you send fixes and next time we have some
> better.

OK,

> Pharopatas code is welcomed, I like work with our distant cousins.

What is Pharopatas? (link?)



> P.S. And for those who want Big Size....
> 23Mb Tar gzip
>


Thank you that you work on a "big image" which serves as a show case
of what is working in Squeak 4.1 trunk...

--Hannes

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Bert Freudenberg
In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene-3

On 27.08.2010, at 12:28, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

Mandatory screenshot

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5135/cmcapture1b.png

And this was build and test with John Squeak 5.8b3, so I do not sure work in others OS.
We could have Pier, Games , MathMorphs, Connectors, etc. FASTER

http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha.tgz

If some do not work, some of you send fixes and next time we have some better.

Pharopatas code is welcomed, I like work with our distant cousins.

Edgar


P.S. And for those who want Big Size....
23Mb Tar gzip


Nice stuff. You should update the FunSqueak download link at


because that still has the 3.10 version.

- Bert -




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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel



On 8/28/10 9:08 AM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> nice to have muO (musical Objects I think) preloaded in an image.
> No need to figure out this for myself. A real time saver.

What is into the image is a first try and Stephanne sure do new things with
the alpha info of the previous.
It's only a test !!!
What we need is unload the alpha old and reload the new we made

>this is just based on Squeak trunk, no unloading of packages first, right?
Yes. I only hit the update button and go from previous 21 April 2010 9992.
Then re save and only could open with Squeak 5.8b3 John Cog VM

>What is Pharopatas? (link?)

Pharopatas is Pharo users/developers . They take Pharo as religion
sometimes.
Most the time was nice people and I hope soon all work together again

> Thank you that you work on a "big image" which serves as a show case
> of what is working in Squeak 4.1 trunk...

With time I could add new versions of was inside and polish troubles.
Also add old or new Squeak projects with some help of all.
One cool is BabyIDE-1 of Trygve M. H. Reenskaug
.
Another useful is all VMMaker related.

Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes


On 8/28/10 9:18 AM, "Bert Freudenberg" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nice stuff. You should update the FunSqueak download link at

http://www.squeak.org/Download/

because that still has the 3.10 version.

- Bert -

Ok, I could polish more.
We need Cog VM ready to run for the other OS and check all works.


Edgar


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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Stéphane Rollandin
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
> nice to have muO (musical Objects I think) preloaded in an image.
> No need to figure out this for myself. A real time saver.

If you want to have a better feel of muO, a recent version is also
available as a ready-for-use image at:
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm (direct link:
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/muO%20243%20image.zip)

Stef



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
On 8/30/10, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> nice to have muO (musical Objects I think) preloaded in an image.
>> No need to figure out this for myself. A real time saver.
>
> If you want to have a better feel of muO, a recent version is also
> available as a ready-for-use image at:
> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm (direct link:
> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/muO%20243%20image.zip)
>
> Stef
>

Stef
Thank you for this link and the reminder. On which image is it based?
Probably not Squeak 4.1 trunk latest as Edgar's?  The thing is that I
perceive the FunSqueak like a kind of show case for various things. A
one-stop thing to explore different projects so that I do not have to
download various images from various places.

So for exploring just muO as such your image is fine but if I want to
show people some things which are available in Squeak 'FunSqueak' is
the image to go for.

So my suggestion is that you help Edgar to resolve problems installing muO.

Regards
Hannes

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
Edgar

May the easiest for the time beeing would be to upload Stephane
Rollandin's image as well to the 'experimental' folder

Hannes

On 8/30/10, Hannes Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/30/10, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> nice to have muO (musical Objects I think) preloaded in an image.
>>> No need to figure out this for myself. A real time saver.
>>
>> If you want to have a better feel of muO, a recent version is also
>> available as a ready-for-use image at:
>> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm (direct link:
>> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/muO%20243%20image.zip)
>>
>> Stef
>>
>
> Stef
> Thank you for this link and the reminder. On which image is it based?
> Probably not Squeak 4.1 trunk latest as Edgar's?  The thing is that I
> perceive the FunSqueak like a kind of show case for various things. A
> one-stop thing to explore different projects so that I do not have to
> download various images from various places.
>
> So for exploring just muO as such your image is fine but if I want to
> show people some things which are available in Squeak 'FunSqueak' is
> the image to go for.
>
> So my suggestion is that you help Edgar to resolve problems installing muO.
>
> Regards
> Hannes
>

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Stéphane Rollandin
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel

> Thank you for this link and the reminder. On which image is it based?
> Probably not Squeak 4.1 trunk latest as Edgar's?

Not the very latest, but still 4.1 (thanks to Edgar by the way)

> So my suggestion is that you help Edgar to resolve problems installing muO.

I would do so if I could, but it is not easy. At the moment muO is an
application, not a package: it changes many things in the host image,
including appearance, behavior of menus, and many small
improvements/fixes (IMO of course) which make it difficult to coexist
with some packages.

The solution would be to break muO into core components (compatible,
without side-effects, suitable for FunSqueak) on one side, and
dispensable look&feel components on the other side. I'll do so in the
future, but I don't know when...

Stef



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3



On 8/30/10 7:56 AM, "Stéphane Rollandin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The solution would be to break muO into core components (compatible,
> without side-effects, suitable for FunSqueak) on one side, and
> dispensable look&feel components on the other side. I'll do so in the
> future, but I don't know when...
>
> Stef
I take a look to last you have .
Other way could take the complete muO and update it.
Using Cog is faster, but we need ready to run Cog Vm for Linux and Windows
also.

Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene-3
On 8/27/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mandatory screenshot
>
> http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5135/cmcapture1b.png
>
> And this was build and test with John Squeak 5.8b3, so I do not sure work in
> others OS.
> We could have Pier, Games , MathMorphs, Connectors, etc. FASTER
>
> http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha.tgz
>
> If some do not work, some of you send fixes and next time we have some
> better.
>
> Pharopatas code is welcomed, I like work with our distant cousins.
>
> Edgar
>
>
> P.S. And for those who want Big Size....
> 23Mb Tar gzip
Edgar

I managed to download and unzip it on MSWindows (just a plain zip file
would be more user friendly) and get the Cog VM (thank you Levente)
and opened it.

I like the selection of projects.

Things to look at for the next version

1) When the image opens I see the HelpBrowser open. I click in the
Help browser in 'Help on Help' I get a walk back. This was the first
thing I actually did. I wonder which version of the HelpBrowser you
are using as it comes with Squeak 4.1 trunk.

2) There is no menu (docking bar)

3) If I want to read the instructions in muO (musical objects) and
click on the next page link in the BookMorph I get a walkback.  I
assume the BookMorph must be an issue of Squeak 4.1 trunk


--Hannes

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene-3
On 8/30/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 8/30/10 7:56 AM, "Stéphane Rollandin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The solution would be to break muO into core components (compatible,
>> without side-effects, suitable for FunSqueak) on one side, and
>> dispensable look&feel components on the other side. I'll do so in the
>> future, but I don't know when...
>>
>> Stef
> I take a look to last you have .
> Other way could take the complete muO and update it.
If possible, I would prefer that you load it into FunSqueak and
document the process   ..... :-)

> Using Cog is faster, but we need ready to run Cog Vm for Linux and Windows
> also.

I just asked
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/152996.html
and Levente gave the answer
http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/

There is a Linux and a Windows version as well as a Mac version.

I tried out the Windows version and it starts with your image. I

--Hannes

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel



On 8/30/10 12:02 PM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Edgar
>
> I managed to download and unzip it on MSWindows (just a plain zip file
> would be more user friendly) and get the Cog VM (thank you Levente)
> and opened it.
>
> I like the selection of projects.
>
> Things to look at for the next version
>
> 1) When the image opens I see the HelpBrowser open. I click in the
> Help browser in 'Help on Help' I get a walk back. This was the first
> thing I actually did. I wonder which version of the HelpBrowser you
> are using as it comes with Squeak 4.1 trunk.
>
> 2) There is no menu (docking bar)
>
> 3) If I want to read the instructions in muO (musical objects) and
> click on the next page link in the BookMorph I get a walkback.  I
> assume the BookMorph must be an issue of Squeak 4.1 trunk
>
>
> --Hannes
I redo all starting from Squeak4.2-10423-alpha.image, the last I have.
Maybe the next week end i republish.
Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel



On 8/30/10 12:07 PM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If possible, I would prefer that you load it into FunSqueak and
> document the process   ..... :-)
Ok, this is the best.
Redo all with last trunk and document the troubles

> I just asked
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/152996.html
> and Levente gave the answer
> http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/
>
> There is a Linux and a Windows version as well as a Mac version.
>
> I tried out the Windows version and it starts with your image.

This is good news , could unload all and test in Mac/Windows/Linux (ubuntu)
Send mail here about progress
Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
Hello Edgar

On 8/30/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 8/30/10 12:07 PM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If possible, I would prefer that you load it into FunSqueak and
>> document the process   ..... :-)
> Ok, this is the best.
> Redo all with last trunk and document the troubles

Fine. I'll be happy to read the documentation.

I have a suggestion. Maybe you put images of the steps between as well
in the 'experimental' folder, e.g. you load muO (musical Objects) into
the latest Squeak 4.1 trunk image, publish it, then you add another
project, publish it and so on.
This will allow us to more easily find out where the trouble are.

Sources of problems may be
1) The application/project has not been fully ported to the latest
Squeak 4.1 trunk
2) The Squeak 4.1 trunk does not support a feature properly anymore
which was there in an earlier version.
3) Problems induces by the Cog VM.

In any case these tests will reveal a lot.

Thank you for your work of your group, Edgar.

--Hannes





>> I just asked
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/152996.html
>> and Levente gave the answer
>> http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/
>>
>> There is a Linux and a Windows version as well as a Mac version.
>>
>> I tried out the Windows version and it starts with your image.
>
> This is good news , could unload all and test in Mac/Windows/Linux (ubuntu)
> Send mail here about progress
> Edgar
>
>
>
>

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
P.S.

Maybe you can your findings in this thread, which problems you
encounter etc. I am interested in it.

--Hannes

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel



On 8/31/10 8:39 AM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Fine. I'll be happy to read the documentation.
>
> I have a suggestion. Maybe you put images of the steps between as well
> in the 'experimental' folder, e.g. you load muO (musical Objects) into
> the latest Squeak 4.1 trunk image, publish it, then you add another
> project, publish it and so on.
> This will allow us to more easily find out where the trouble are.
>
> Sources of problems may be
> 1) The application/project has not been fully ported to the latest
> Squeak 4.1 trunk
> 2) The Squeak 4.1 trunk does not support a feature properly anymore
> which was there in an earlier version.
> 3) Problems induces by the Cog VM.
>
> In any case these tests will reveal a lot.
>
> Thank you for your work of your group, Edgar.


Ok.
I just working on it before my student come in a hour

Take this as informal report

Building FunSqueak with Cog Squeak 5.8b4 John VM from fresh
Squeak4.2-10423-alpha

First, you need do SMSqueakMap bootStrap if like to download any of SM
This steps works, I got some from Goran in the process.
Trying to load the last Games for trunk I made some time ago shows:

You need
ComponentLikeModel.st

This was ripped by Andreas for good , but still most older needs it until we
refactor projects/class who refers to it.

Project loads ans shows, but screen freezes.

Starting again and trying drag and drop from Squeaklets and .pr just created
shows a known old bug with Mac, drag and drop of .pr just do not work.

Another issue is I locate VM on Elliot place but no luck to have working on
Windows 7 or Ubuntu.

I see was packed inside part of Mac VM like All in One , this technique
start on Sophie IMHO, so for other OS you need navigate and locate the
apropiate .exe or .app , etc.

I know all this but still can't have Cog in Windows or Ubuntu.
I read you have success so sure I miss some...


Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
Thank you for this informal report. An answer to just one point before
I go to lunch.
I just did run a reduced image with a MSWindows Cog VM, see
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/153026.html

--Hannes

On 8/31/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 8/31/10 8:39 AM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Fine. I'll be happy to read the documentation.
>>
>> I have a suggestion. Maybe you put images of the steps between as well
>> in the 'experimental' folder, e.g. you load muO (musical Objects) into
>> the latest Squeak 4.1 trunk image, publish it, then you add another
>> project, publish it and so on.
>> This will allow us to more easily find out where the trouble are.
>>
>> Sources of problems may be
>> 1) The application/project has not been fully ported to the latest
>> Squeak 4.1 trunk
>> 2) The Squeak 4.1 trunk does not support a feature properly anymore
>> which was there in an earlier version.
>> 3) Problems induces by the Cog VM.
>>
>> In any case these tests will reveal a lot.
>>
>> Thank you for your work of your group, Edgar.
>
>
> Ok.
> I just working on it before my student come in a hour
>
> Take this as informal report
>
> Building FunSqueak with Cog Squeak 5.8b4 John VM from fresh
> Squeak4.2-10423-alpha
>
> First, you need do SMSqueakMap bootStrap if like to download any of SM
> This steps works, I got some from Goran in the process.
> Trying to load the last Games for trunk I made some time ago shows:
>
> You need
> ComponentLikeModel.st
>
> This was ripped by Andreas for good , but still most older needs it until we
> refactor projects/class who refers to it.
>
> Project loads ans shows, but screen freezes.
>
> Starting again and trying drag and drop from Squeaklets and .pr just created
> shows a known old bug with Mac, drag and drop of .pr just do not work.
>
> Another issue is I locate VM on Elliot place but no luck to have working on
> Windows 7 or Ubuntu.
>
> I see was packed inside part of Mac VM like All in One , this technique
> start on Sophie IMHO, so for other OS you need navigate and locate the
> apropiate .exe or .app , etc.
>
> I know all this but still can't have Cog in Windows or Ubuntu.
> I read you have success so sure I miss some...
>
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>

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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Edgar J. De Cleene-3



On 8/31/10 9:31 AM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for this informal report. An answer to just one point before
> I go to lunch.
> I just did run a reduced image with a MSWindows Cog VM, see
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/153026.html

As "reduced image" your have SqueakLight3 which do not load again downloaded
packages and can load MultiMediaMonticello (old ProcustesEnd).
You could forget some other differences by now.
Maybe I should put again a older one into Experiments and you see the
updated steps.
I wish have not only Monticello , but also .cs via Utilities
applyUpdatesFromDisk.
Here you could test image with your own different code and send later to
some place...


The real challenge is not build a big image (Etoys, Croquet, Seaside) or
Fun, MuO, BabyIDe starting from rgular trunk.

It's if we could do using smaller/modular like Pavel, Juan, mines , others
(SqueakCore PharoCore iPhone.image of John is a nicer one for start)

We should have the goal of unload one or more packages of 4.2...

Edgar



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Re: [ANN] FunSqueakCog-10423-alpha ready for improve with a little help of friends and complain by foes

Hannes Hirzel
Thank you Edgar for your explanations.

In my understanding there is work going on in three different 'product
lines', so to say


1) The regular trunk image as is (for a bit less than a year I think)

2) A minimal image (Pavel, Andreas, Juan, you with SqueakLight)

3) FunSqueak - (loaded on top of 1). It acts as a showcase for
projects, people can have a look at things without going through the
pain of hunting for packages, load scripts etc.)


I understand that for 3) you use different methods, not only
Monticello, but as well SAR files (Squeak Archive), Change Sets (cs)
and direct manipulation within the image.


Hannes

On 8/31/10, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 8/31/10 9:31 AM, "Hannes Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for this informal report. An answer to just one point before
>> I go to lunch.
>> I just did run a reduced image with a MSWindows Cog VM, see
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/153026.html
>
> As "reduced image" your have SqueakLight3 which do not load again downloaded
> packages and can load MultiMediaMonticello (old ProcustesEnd).
> You could forget some other differences by now.
> Maybe I should put again a older one into Experiments and you see the
> updated steps.
> I wish have not only Monticello , but also .cs via Utilities
> applyUpdatesFromDisk.
> Here you could test image with your own different code and send later to
> some place...
>
>
> The real challenge is not build a big image (Etoys, Croquet, Seaside) or
> Fun, MuO, BabyIDe starting from rgular trunk.
>
> It's if we could do using smaller/modular like Pavel, Juan, mines , others
> (SqueakCore PharoCore iPhone.image of John is a nicer one for start)
>
> We should have the goal of unload one or more packages of 4.2...
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>