[ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
Locked
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
 
|
Its just a number of gems serving pages, web clients are limited only by what each gem can handle. Are you thinking of running 100,000 copies of GemStone, one per app? :) _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
On 5/1/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Its just a number of gems serving pages, web clients are limited only by > what each gem can handle. Are you thinking of running 100,000 copies of > GemStone, one per app? :) Shhh, don't scare them :) Though I'm definitely curious if that's an option: it would be great if seasidehosting.st, for example, could offer an unlimited number of independent GemStone Web Edition servers for free. Avi _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
It sounds like its the same model as other vendors use, do whatever you want with it as limits are built-in, just don't try to crack them. The main talk is tomorrow, rest assured I will be there asking as many questions as I can think of and this one is on the list. Anything else anyone wants to find out? _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Avi Bryant-2
This question was asked at the BOF. The answer was Smalltalk clients. There is no imposed limit on the number of web clients. It is as many as the vm (gem) can handle. The idea for the free version was that one gem can serve web clients, and the other can be used for development (squeak) or system administration (topaz) or for serving clients.
Mike On 5/1/07, Avi Bryant <[hidden email]> wrote: Can you clarify the Max Server Processes limitation? Is this about -- Mike Hales Engineering Manager KnowledgeScape www.kscape.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
This "number of user gems" seems to be the most difficult phrase to
translate into something non-GemStone-specific. At first we said "number of user session" (which is the common vocabulary for the traditional fat-client GemStone application). That quickly ran into the confusion of web sessions. Next we said "number of database connections," but that seemed to have some of the same implication. Now we have "number of server processes" which seems sufficiently vague and meaningless to not be confused with anything. Suggestions are welcome! James Foster > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > From: "Mike Hales" <[hidden email]> > Date: Tue, May 01, 2007 10:45 pm > To: "Seaside - general discussion" <[hidden email]> > > This question was asked at the BOF. The answer was Smalltalk clients. > There is no imposed limit on the number of web clients. It is as many > as the > vm (gem) can handle. The idea for the free version was that one gem can > serve web clients, and the other can be used for development (squeak) or > system administration (topaz) or for serving clients. > > Mike > > On 5/1/07, Avi Bryant <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Can you clarify the Max Server Processes limitation? Is this about > > how many Smalltalk clients can connect to the server, or does it also > > apply to web clients? > > > > Avi > > > > On 5/1/07, Monty Williams <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the announcement made at the GemStone BOF at Smalltalk > Solutions > > > 2007. I added GemStone specific terminology in parentheses to make it > > > clearer to those of you already using GemStone. It was a great > BOF, wish > > you > > > all could have been there. > > > > > > -- Monty > > > > > > Seaside under GLASS > > > > > > > > > > > > Introducing a powerful new way to deploy desktop-like web > applications > > -- > > > GLASS: GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, Smalltalk. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may already be familiar with the advantages Seaside has over > Ruby on > > > Rails. But you may be concerned that Seaside lacks native > persistence or > > > won't scale. > > > > > > > > > > > > By running your Seaside application in GemStone, you'll gain a > Smalltalk > > > based Application Server and OODB that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Provides fully transparent persistence that doesn't require > > > Object-Relational Mapping > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scales to over a hundred billion objects and thousands of > simultaneous > > > connections > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supports fully ACID transactions to handle concurrency conflicts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Handles up to 150 HTTP requests per second > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Directly loads Monticello packages into a GemStone VM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GemStone/S is proven technology currently deployed in numerous global > > 2000 > > > companies in the financial, container shipping, manufacturing, and > > utilities > > > sectors. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a comparison of several 64-bit editions of GemStone/S that > will > > be > > > available in Q3 of 2007: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GemStone/S Web Edition > > > > > > GemStone/S LE > > > > > > GemStone/S > > > > > > > > > Price > > > > > > Free! > > > > > > $7000/year > > > > > > Call > > > > > > > > > Number of objects > > > > > > 64 million > > > > > > 256 million > > > > > > 138 billion > > > > > > > > > CPUs Used > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > 2 > > > > > > unlimited > > > > > > > > > Max RAM > > > (Shared Page Cache Size) > > > > > > 1 GB > > > > > > 2 GB > > > > > > 32768 GB > > > > > > > > > Max Disk (Repository Size) > > > > > > 4 GB > > > > > > 64 GB > > > > > > 8192 TeraBytes > > > > > > > > > Max Server Processes (Concurrent Sessions) > > > > > > 2 > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > 10,000 > > > > > > > > > Clustered Servers > > > (Remote Gems) > > > > > > no > > > > > > no > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > Linux > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > Solaris, AIX, HP-UX > > > > > > no > > > > > > no > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > VisualWorks Clients > > > > > > no > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > VA Smalltalk Clients > > > > > > no > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > Web Clients > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > Squeak Tools > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > yes > > > > > > > > > Support > > > > > > Community > > > > > > 20 hours/year > > > > > > Std 9x5 or or 24x7 > > > > > > > > > > > > Other configurations between GemStone/S LE and the full version of > > > GemStone/S are available through subscription or perpetual licenses. > > Contact > > > [hidden email] for inquiries. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > -- > Mike Hales > Engineering Manager > KnowledgeScape > www.kscape.com<hr>_______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
Having all the processes for all the databases hardwired to use the same
CPU should limit that abuse of the free license. When that limit begins to hurt, you will have the choice of sending money to Dell or sending money to GemStone. I trust you will make the right decision. ;-) James > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > From: "Avi Bryant" <[hidden email]> > Date: Tue, May 01, 2007 9:33 pm > To: "Seaside - general discussion" <[hidden email]> > > On 5/1/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Its just a number of gems serving pages, web clients are limited > only by > > what each gem can handle. Are you thinking of running 100,000 copies of > > GemStone, one per app? :) > > Shhh, don't scare them :) > > Though I'm definitely curious if that's an option: it would be great > if seasidehosting.st, for example, could offer an unlimited number of > independent GemStone Web Edition servers for free. > > Avi > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
Ah, okay, so there are more measures in place after all :)
-Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:03 AM > To: Seaside - general discussion > Subject: RE: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > > Having all the processes for all the databases hardwired to use the same > CPU should limit that abuse of the free license. When that limit begins > to hurt, you will have the choice of sending money to Dell or sending > money to GemStone. I trust you will make the right decision. ;-) > > James > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > > From: "Avi Bryant" <[hidden email]> > > Date: Tue, May 01, 2007 9:33 pm > > To: "Seaside - general discussion" <[hidden email]> > > > > On 5/1/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > Its just a number of gems serving pages, web clients are limited > > only by > > > what each gem can handle. Are you thinking of running 100,000 copies > of > > > GemStone, one per app? :) > > > > Shhh, don't scare them :) > > > > Though I'm definitely curious if that's an option: it would be great > > if seasidehosting.st, for example, could offer an unlimited number of > > independent GemStone Web Edition servers for free. > > > > Avi > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
I'll need to think about that one. It would be good if every app on seasidehosting.st had GemStone persistence. It would be even better if _every_ Seaside app had GemStone persistence. We could get our revenue when they grew to the point they needed a commercialy supported version. There would be no conversion effort for them at that point, just a new license. I'm looking forward to the Seaside BOF tonight. -- Monty On 5/1/07, Avi Bryant <[hidden email]> wrote: Shhh, don't scare them :) Though I'm definitely curious if that's an option: it would be great
Avi
_______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
It's just that a single free server is limited to one cpu. You might be able to run two servers on one machine using 1 cpu each. Ask at 11. -- Monty -----Original Message-----
Ah, okay, so there are more measures in place after all :) -Boris --
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
Thank you. > -----Original Message-----
_______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by jgfoster
On 5/2/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This "number of user gems" seems to be the most difficult phrase to > translate into something non-GemStone-specific. At first we said > "number of user session" (which is the common vocabulary for the > traditional fat-client GemStone application). That quickly ran into the > confusion of web sessions. Next we said "number of database > connections," but that seemed to have some of the same implication. Now > we have "number of server processes" which seems sufficiently vague and > meaningless to not be confused with anything. > > Suggestions are welcome! "Number of Squeak/VW clients"? Avi _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
|
|
For the free version there is not VW access. How will code
browsing/updates be possible? Through Monticello only? Can Squeak be used to directly browse/update GemStone code? Thierry _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
Yes, free version will come with Squeak tools for GemStone: browser, workspace, debugger and such. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Avi Bryant-2
Avi Bryant wrote:
> On 5/2/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote: >> ... Now >> we have "number of server processes" which seems sufficiently vague and >> meaningless to not be confused with anything. >> >> Suggestions are welcome! > > > "Number of Squeak/VW clients"? IIUC, "number of gems" is the precise answer, but they're striving for terminology that those unfamiliar with GemStone can relate to. I think that "number of server processes" works fine for this purpose. It's unclear whether a VW client would be able to connect to the "free" version. The number of Squeak clients able to connect would be reduced by the number of topaz clients that are connected. So, "number of Squeak/VW clients" does not seem to be the right term to use. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Thelliez
Thierry Thelliez wrote:
> For the free version there is not VW access. How will code > browsing/updates be possible? Through Monticello only? Can Squeak be > used to directly browse/update GemStone code? The demo showed a Squeak image with a modified System Browser that was able to browse the GemStone database. I don't recall seeing a Workspace or Debugger onto GemStone, nor do I recall seeing any code update being accepted from the browser running in Squeak. There was a login window (probably implemented with Morphic) that is the equivalent of the login window you'd see in a VAST or VW GemStone client. In the demo, a topaz window was used to start the Seaside server. IIUC, the intention is that a Squeak image would be used to browse/update, debug, and run doit's. This image would not be a full GBS, like you'd have with a non-free VAST or VW client - i.e. there won't be any transparent object replication to the Squeak image, message forwarding, etc. IIUC, the SqueakSource application was ported to run under GemStone/Seaside, and any .mcz's uploaded to such a server would be persisted by GemStone, instead of in the filesystem. It's unclear to me how the .mcz would then be installed into the GS server. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
They did show the workspace and debugger, and browsers are working, although yes, they aren't quite like the gbs browsers in that there's none of the code pushing facilities etc. But they do what browsers do, edit code and browse around. The only things not quite finished at the moment are inspectors and breakpoint support in the debugger from what I understand, I'm sure we'll know more details as soon as they get a chance to catch up on sleep ;) _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
Boris Popov wrote:
> They did show the workspace and debugger, and browsers are working I got into the room 10 minutes past the start, so I must have missed that part. Inspectors and debugger/breakpoint, IIUC, are the crucial pieces holding up a (beta?) release. [BTW, can you beat up on the Blackberry guys for breaking the news/email thread. Are they trying to save bits by skipping headers?] _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by jgfoster
James, better than just trust, would be that Gemstone stipulate a price compatible with an economy of scale. If Gemstone is thinking big, it is expecting to control a new "blue ocean" with this recent move. So I wish they make the right decision and do it for good (perhaps a bigger ocean) in a way that also all the st community will won big (markets of economies in development included). Seaside is the more attractive st project now and Gemstone has the rare chance of adding completeness to smalltalk way to solve things, but the fact is that it's price just don't scale. cheers, Sebastian PD: do Gemstone have metrics about how many projects have it's ROI drop down enough to be bad choices, just because you added to the project's cashflow the Gemstone license row? > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de [hidden email] > Enviado el: Miércoles, 02 de Mayo de 2007 09:03 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > > Having all the processes for all the databases hardwired to > use the same CPU should limit that abuse of the free license. > When that limit begins to hurt, you will have the choice of > sending money to Dell or sending money to GemStone. I trust > you will make the right decision. ;-) > > James > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk > Solutions 2007 > > From: "Avi Bryant" <[hidden email]> > > Date: Tue, May 01, 2007 9:33 pm > > To: "Seaside - general discussion" > > <[hidden email]> > > > > On 5/1/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > Its just a number of gems serving pages, web clients are limited > > only by > > > what each gem can handle. Are you thinking of running > 100,000 copies > > > of GemStone, one per app? :) > > > > Shhh, don't scare them :) > > > > Though I'm definitely curious if that's an option: it would > be great > > if seasidehosting.st, for example, could offer an unlimited > number of > > independent GemStone Web Edition servers for free. > > > > Avi > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
|
|
In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
We also consider the Monticello tools to be required as well. Once we
get the Browser/Debugger/Inspector and Monticello tools operational, we'll begin the beta program. Dale Boris Popov wrote: >Yes, free version will come with Squeak tools for GemStone: browser, >workspace, debugger and such. > >Cheers! > >-Boris >(Sent from a BlackBerry) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: [hidden email] ><[hidden email]> >To: Seaside - general discussion <[hidden email]> >Sent: Wed May 02 12:03:58 2007 >Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007 > >For the free version there is not VW access. How will code >browsing/updates be possible? Through Monticello only? Can Squeak be >used to directly browse/update GemStone code? > >Thierry >_______________________________________________ >Seaside mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside ><http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Seaside mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] GemStone BOF at Smalltalk Solutions 2007
|
|
In reply to this post by Dale
I realized my previous
email on the GemStone/S Web Edition wasn't easily readable by many of you. I
apologize for sending HTML email. Here's a PDF of the announcement that contains
prices and configurations.
--
Monty
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Web Edition Announcement3.pdf (96K) | Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |