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What bothers me is who is going to maintain this stuff if/when you leave.
So, what i asking for is to sit down with me and explain/show to me
all those scripts, how they
connected , where they taking stuff from and how they work.
Because it is unnatural to me to use stuff which i am not fully
understand how it works.
(aside of hating dealing with bash ;)

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

On 2013-02-05, at 13:59, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

so then I really don't see why you cannot use the jenkins job?

> If you took initiative about something, don't expect that others will
> work in same pace as you or
> automatically/immediately pick up everything you did and integrate it
> into their working cycle.
> It takes time and effort (both mental and physical).

exactly, that is one of the reason we have a build server. People can just come
download and test an artifact.
What do you think happened when stef tried to show athens in chile?

> Ask yourself:
> - who, except original author knows best how things work?

most probably the original author, that's also usually the guy you ask if you do not
understand something.

> - when you create a new artefacts, like a bunch of bash scripts for
> jenkins. Who, you think, should take responsibility about them by _default_?

so you that means since Christophe did the first pass on all the scripts he owns
the responsibility for all the jobs? I did simplify the process, I reduced the dependency on
jenkins for most builds, I added command line configuration scripts for Pharo...

Really, I even communicated all of that on multiple occasions: by mail, by presentation

If they are not good let me know my goal is to improve the situation we have!

> - when you reconfiguring stuff and doing it completely different than
> it was done before, why you think that rest of the world should
> immediately jump in and start using it?

Have you really ever had a look at what I did? I doubt it?
=> I introduced the scripts, I described them, I documented them
=> if there are difficulties understanding them I will explain it, document it
=> if something is wrong or should be changed I am willing to change it

>  - and finally, when you creating/releasing new stuff every other
> day.. how many people is capable of keeping clear track of what you
> are doing over months (+ doing own tasks)?

I did not work on that for 3 months, so it is rather old. Things keep changing
maybe for the worse, yes. But so far I haven't had many complaints.

And if you had a look at it you would maybe give me instructive comments?
Right now it reads as a global disagreement :/ with which I can only disagree

Igor Stasenko wrote

 - when you reconfiguring stuff and doing it completely different than
it was done before, why you think that rest of the world should
immediately jump in and start using it?
  - and finally, when you creating/releasing new stuff every other
day.. how many people is capable of keeping clear track of what you
are doing over months (+ doing own tasks)?

What great problems we have* ;)

 - Sean

* And of course, I understand the frustration

On 2013-02-05, at 14:17, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What bothers me is who is going to maintain this stuff if/when you leave.

well I moved most of the code to Pharo, so everyone

> So, what i asking for is to sit down with me and explain/show to me
> all those scripts, how they connected , where they taking stuff from and how they work.

for a first step you can inspect the scripts, they have all a --help switch, as you would
expect from most bash scripts

the same goes for the pharo command line arguments, they all have --help which will display
the class comments. Really, it is mostly self-documenting with no magic.

> Because it is unnatural to me to use stuff which i am not fully understand how it works.
> (aside of hating dealing with bash ;)

FYI: all the scripts are in the gitorious repository and are uploaded to the gforge

from here:
        https://gitorious.org/pharo-build/pharo-build/trees/master/pharo-shell-scripts/ci
to here:
        pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/script/
by this jenkins job:
        https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/all/job/Scripts-download/

Nice questions and I love our answers!

Stef

We should find a way to document the one single place we should look for scripts.
any suggestions?

Stef
On Feb 5, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

> from here:
> https://gitorious.org/pharo-build/pharo-build/trees/master/pharo-shell-scripts/ci
> to here:
> pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/script/
> by this jenkins job:
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/all/job/Scripts-download/

Camillo

you are favorite swiss. I love your burst of anger/rage! and I'm serious :)

>
> And if you had a look at it you would maybe give me instructive comments?
> Right now it reads as a global disagreement :/ with which I can only disagree

yes I read it like that too.
and you are right not having a place to get the pharo athens vm + athens loaded is a pain to push people to use it.

Stef

On 2013-02-05, at 21:59, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Camillo
>
> you are favorite swiss. I love your burst of anger/rage! and I'm serious :)

hahaha, well – I also should learn to contain myself, I do not want that my environment
acts in fear of my outbursts :(

>> And if you had a look at it you would maybe give me instructive comments?
>> Right now it reads as a global disagreement :/ with which I can only disagree
>
> yes I read it like that too.
> and you are right not having a place to get the pharo athens vm + athens loaded is a pain to push people to use it.


so yes, the question of documentation?

=> one part goes into the git repository (remember oscar's famous README.txt files? we should start with those...)
- I started a clean repos here: https://github.com/pharo-project/ci

=> the other part goes on the jenkins jobs (I guess you started documenting it in chile?)
- where does stuff come from
- where does it go to?
- and who is responsible? (I want a personal phone number on each job ;)

On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

>
> On 2013-02-05, at 21:59, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Camillo
>>
>> you are favorite swiss. I love your burst of anger/rage! and I'm serious :)
>
> hahaha, well – I also should learn to contain myself, I do not want that my environment
> acts in fear of my outbursts :(

Yes
I think that letting the steam out is also good.
Getting calm should come with age. :)
At least I'm much calmer I was used to be.

hmm
wget --quiet -qO -
http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/script/ciPharo20NBCogVM.sh | bash

don't seems to work for me on windows:

 bash ciPharo20NBCogVM.sh
--2013-02-05 22:33:39--
http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/vm/nbcog/Windows_NT/nbcog-Windows_NT-latest.zip
Resolving pharo.gforge.inria.fr... 131.254.249.53
Connecting to pharo.gforge.inria.fr|131.254.249.53|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
2013-02-05 22:33:39 ERROR 404: Not Found.


--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

On 2013-02-05, at 22:35, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

wrong environment variable for $OS?

on jenkins we manually set the env var I think..

On 5 February 2013 22:44, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: yes.

but it is set on mingw shell:
echo $OS
Windows_NT

i suppose it will work if i set it to 'win'.
but then i think it may break other stuff which depends on it..

perhaps we should use less conflicting variable name (like
'JENKINS_OS'), and if it is not set, then
detect OS via uname.. etc (sounds like we will need another crappy
bash script with a lot of if statements) .

because then it kind of defeats the idea of having zero-conf scripts.


--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

On 2013-02-05, at 23:15, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

sure, you can try to implement it with a small uname statement that will mostly work...

On 5 February 2013 23:30, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
yeah.. "mostly" is the key word here :)

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.