[ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
19 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Torsten Bergmann
Hi,

a little story:

As you may know I wrote the current "Pharo help" implementation which
you can access from the Help menu or via

  HelpBrowser open

I'm still not satisfied with it. Some projects like NativeBoost,
Metacello and others already provide an appropriate help package - but
still beginners help and documentation is not where I would like to see it.

The HelpBrowser is only usable within the image and other nice docu (blog
posts, videos, ...) for Pharo is available online. You have to know
about these pages after downloading Pharo to find the tips and tricks
and nice features of the Smalltalk world.

There is also no central "docu" point for someone who just downloaded
Pharo and want a "Quick start". Also I dislike that we are limited with
the in-image presentation style (text only) and that content is not
visible to Google, Bing, etc.
 
That made me think about web/HTML/Internet like documentation again
and the image as the central place beginners have downloaded already.

After many years of private research I now noticed that HTML is
nothing more than a structured String - so I started coding... :)

Packaging Seaside with the default Pharo image to serve help content
would be overkill - but there is always a leaner way.
Since Pharo 2.0 we have Zinc HTTP components within the image
(thanks Sven!) and I played a little bit with it. It is really easy
to setup/startup a webserver from Smalltalk now.
 
So I wrote a basic "HelpServer" and wrapped the nice "twitter bootstrap"
library. Code may be ugly and require some refactoring ... but it is
currently more a prove of concept.

Attached is a screenshot of the result running in a webbrowser.


What is it: the idea is that we server the documentation from within the
image but use the local webbrowser to display it. Since we soon integrate NativeBoost in Pharo 2.0 it is also easy to open the browser as soon as "Help" is requested from a menu.

Serving for the web would also mean we could easily setup an image
online that displays the docu online for indexing by search engines etc.

Where is the code:

 http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/PharoOnlineHelp.html  (Read/Write)

If you want to play with it yourself then start a Pharo 2.0 image, go to
"Tools" -> "ConfigurationBrowser", select "PharoOnlineHelp" and select
"Install configuration (stable version)" from the context menu.

After that evaluate

   HelpServer start

and point your browser to http://localhost:8080


If you like scripting you can also evaluate in a Pharo 2.0 image:

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Gofer it
        squeaksource3: 'PharoOnlineHelp';
        package: 'ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp';
        load.
       
   ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp) project version: #stable) load.
   (Smalltalk at: #HelpServer) start
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Next steps:
===========

 1. Lets discuss how we want to fill the "API help" section. I know that
    there once was a project that generated static API help  
    (http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st) but we can now directly serve
    from the live image.

    My current implementation allows to navigate from classes to
    subclasses and superclasses - just to give you an idea. Maybe we
    want to display only class comments or provide a real Smalltalk
    browser within the webbrowser (similar to http://www.Amber-lang.net)

 2. The section "Intro" is only a mock. I would like to see that people
    can find short "Quick start" like tutorials here to start with
    basic things like Smalltalk, Metacello, ...

    Maybe we can integrate a live and running ProfStef similar to
    http://amber-lang.net/learn.html that is adopted to Pharo.

 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
    for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
    - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help

My wish to Santa would be that Pharo 2.0 comes with a better and
nicer out-of-the-box documentation. For each package/project we should
have a common way to define/load/browse docu and tutorials so people
can just load and quick start without much hazzle.

The code repo is open for read and write - I would appreciate
comments, code contributions, help/tutorial content and ideas.

Thanks
Torsten

onlinehelp.png (58K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stéphane Ducasse
this is cool.
No time to fully read now but later for sure.
I would like to see how we can integrate the book chapters. This is why we brainstormed with damien c
to see how we can use Pier format as a core format for all the doc and so that we can generate the book (like for the seaside book).

Stef

On Nov 6, 2012, at 11:13 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote:

> Hi,
>
> a little story:
>
> As you may know I wrote the current "Pharo help" implementation which
> you can access from the Help menu or via
>
>  HelpBrowser open
>
> I'm still not satisfied with it. Some projects like NativeBoost,
> Metacello and others already provide an appropriate help package - but
> still beginners help and documentation is not where I would like to see it.
>
> The HelpBrowser is only usable within the image and other nice docu (blog
> posts, videos, ...) for Pharo is available online. You have to know
> about these pages after downloading Pharo to find the tips and tricks
> and nice features of the Smalltalk world.
>
> There is also no central "docu" point for someone who just downloaded
> Pharo and want a "Quick start". Also I dislike that we are limited with
> the in-image presentation style (text only) and that content is not
> visible to Google, Bing, etc.
>
> That made me think about web/HTML/Internet like documentation again
> and the image as the central place beginners have downloaded already.
>
> After many years of private research I now noticed that HTML is
> nothing more than a structured String - so I started coding... :)
>
> Packaging Seaside with the default Pharo image to serve help content
> would be overkill - but there is always a leaner way.
> Since Pharo 2.0 we have Zinc HTTP components within the image
> (thanks Sven!) and I played a little bit with it. It is really easy
> to setup/startup a webserver from Smalltalk now.
>
> So I wrote a basic "HelpServer" and wrapped the nice "twitter bootstrap"
> library. Code may be ugly and require some refactoring ... but it is
> currently more a prove of concept.
>
> Attached is a screenshot of the result running in a webbrowser.
>
>
> What is it: the idea is that we server the documentation from within the
> image but use the local webbrowser to display it. Since we soon integrate NativeBoost in Pharo 2.0 it is also easy to open the browser as soon as "Help" is requested from a menu.
>
> Serving for the web would also mean we could easily setup an image
> online that displays the docu online for indexing by search engines etc.
>
> Where is the code:
>
> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/PharoOnlineHelp.html  (Read/Write)
>
> If you want to play with it yourself then start a Pharo 2.0 image, go to
> "Tools" -> "ConfigurationBrowser", select "PharoOnlineHelp" and select
> "Install configuration (stable version)" from the context menu.
>
> After that evaluate
>
>   HelpServer start
>
> and point your browser to http://localhost:8080
>
>
> If you like scripting you can also evaluate in a Pharo 2.0 image:
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Gofer it
> squeaksource3: 'PharoOnlineHelp';
> package: 'ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp';
> load.
>
>   ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp) project version: #stable) load.
>   (Smalltalk at: #HelpServer) start
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Next steps:
> ===========
>
> 1. Lets discuss how we want to fill the "API help" section. I know that
>    there once was a project that generated static API help  
>    (http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st) but we can now directly serve
>    from the live image.
>
>    My current implementation allows to navigate from classes to
>    subclasses and superclasses - just to give you an idea. Maybe we
>    want to display only class comments or provide a real Smalltalk
>    browser within the webbrowser (similar to http://www.Amber-lang.net)
>
> 2. The section "Intro" is only a mock. I would like to see that people
>    can find short "Quick start" like tutorials here to start with
>    basic things like Smalltalk, Metacello, ...
>
>    Maybe we can integrate a live and running ProfStef similar to
>    http://amber-lang.net/learn.html that is adopted to Pharo.
>
> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>    for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>    - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help
>
> My wish to Santa would be that Pharo 2.0 comes with a better and
> nicer out-of-the-box documentation. For each package/project we should
> have a common way to define/load/browse docu and tutorials so people
> can just load and quick start without much hazzle.
>
> The code repo is open for read and write - I would appreciate
> comments, code contributions, help/tutorial content and ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Torsten
> <onlinehelp.png>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Camillo Bruni-3
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
Awesome!!

BTW how do you deal with text formatting?
For NativeBoost we used MarkDown to add sourceCode / method / class  and
section links to the documentation. With the formatting and the webserver
the documentation would be almost perfect in my eyes!



On 2012-11-06, at 23:13, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> a little story:
>
> As you may know I wrote the current "Pharo help" implementation which
> you can access from the Help menu or via
>
>  HelpBrowser open
>
> I'm still not satisfied with it. Some projects like NativeBoost,
> Metacello and others already provide an appropriate help package - but
> still beginners help and documentation is not where I would like to see it.
>
> The HelpBrowser is only usable within the image and other nice docu (blog
> posts, videos, ...) for Pharo is available online. You have to know
> about these pages after downloading Pharo to find the tips and tricks
> and nice features of the Smalltalk world.
>
> There is also no central "docu" point for someone who just downloaded
> Pharo and want a "Quick start". Also I dislike that we are limited with
> the in-image presentation style (text only) and that content is not
> visible to Google, Bing, etc.
>
> That made me think about web/HTML/Internet like documentation again
> and the image as the central place beginners have downloaded already.
>
> After many years of private research I now noticed that HTML is
> nothing more than a structured String - so I started coding... :)
>
> Packaging Seaside with the default Pharo image to serve help content
> would be overkill - but there is always a leaner way.
> Since Pharo 2.0 we have Zinc HTTP components within the image
> (thanks Sven!) and I played a little bit with it. It is really easy
> to setup/startup a webserver from Smalltalk now.
>
> So I wrote a basic "HelpServer" and wrapped the nice "twitter bootstrap"
> library. Code may be ugly and require some refactoring ... but it is
> currently more a prove of concept.
>
> Attached is a screenshot of the result running in a webbrowser.
>
>
> What is it: the idea is that we server the documentation from within the
> image but use the local webbrowser to display it. Since we soon integrate NativeBoost in Pharo 2.0 it is also easy to open the browser as soon as "Help" is requested from a menu.
>
> Serving for the web would also mean we could easily setup an image
> online that displays the docu online for indexing by search engines etc.
>
> Where is the code:
>
> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/PharoOnlineHelp.html  (Read/Write)
>
> If you want to play with it yourself then start a Pharo 2.0 image, go to
> "Tools" -> "ConfigurationBrowser", select "PharoOnlineHelp" and select
> "Install configuration (stable version)" from the context menu.
>
> After that evaluate
>
>   HelpServer start
>
> and point your browser to http://localhost:8080
>
>
> If you like scripting you can also evaluate in a Pharo 2.0 image:
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Gofer it
> squeaksource3: 'PharoOnlineHelp';
> package: 'ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp';
> load.
>
>   ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPharoOnlineHelp) project version: #stable) load.
>   (Smalltalk at: #HelpServer) start
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Next steps:
> ===========
>
> 1. Lets discuss how we want to fill the "API help" section. I know that
>    there once was a project that generated static API help  
>    (http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st) but we can now directly serve
>    from the live image.
>
>    My current implementation allows to navigate from classes to
>    subclasses and superclasses - just to give you an idea. Maybe we
>    want to display only class comments or provide a real Smalltalk
>    browser within the webbrowser (similar to http://www.Amber-lang.net)
>
> 2. The section "Intro" is only a mock. I would like to see that people
>    can find short "Quick start" like tutorials here to start with
>    basic things like Smalltalk, Metacello, ...
>
>    Maybe we can integrate a live and running ProfStef similar to
>    http://amber-lang.net/learn.html that is adopted to Pharo.
>
> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>    for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>    - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help
>
> My wish to Santa would be that Pharo 2.0 comes with a better and
> nicer out-of-the-box documentation. For each package/project we should
> have a common way to define/load/browse docu and tutorials so people
> can just load and quick start without much hazzle.
>
> The code repo is open for read and write - I would appreciate
> comments, code contributions, help/tutorial content and ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Torsten
> <onlinehelp.png>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stephan Eggermont-3
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
Hi Torsten,

You might be interested in the TutorialBrowser in
http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/SpaTutorial
It uses Glamour to build both tutorial texts and exercises
where the exercise can be done directly in the browser.
To see all, you need to load the data from the attached zip.
Set the loading director in the Configuration (bad name, I know)
The latest version is the XpDays2012
Next step would be to integrate the markdown parser
and create better looking texts.

Stephan Eggermont



spa-great-egg-race.zip (2M) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stephan Eggermont-3
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
Here is a screenshot from one of the exercises:



For beginners, we got feedback that there is still too much source visible in the exercise, but that is a small change.

Stephan

PastedGraphic-1.png (114K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

abergel
Gorgeous!

Alexandre


On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here is a screenshot from one of the exercises:
> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
>
> For beginners, we got feedback that there is still too much source visible in the exercise, but that is a small change.
>
> Stephan

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
> As you may know I wrote the current "Pharo help" implementation which
> you can access from the Help menu or via

Yes and I still would like to convince people to write special Unitests tagged <public: #topic number: 3>
to populate the help.

> There is also no central "docu" point for someone who just downloaded
> Pharo and want a "Quick start". Also I dislike that we are limited with
> the in-image presentation style (text only) and that content is not
> visible to Google, Bing, etc.

Yes me too.
This is why I want to write the next chapter of the book Deep into Pharo in a Pier syntax
stored on SVN/Git but be able to generate html + latex (we did that for Seaside book) so it should be easy (just need time).

> Packaging Seaside with the default Pharo image to serve help content
> would be overkill - but there is always a leaner way.
> Since Pharo 2.0 we have Zinc HTTP components within the image
> (thanks Sven!) and I played a little bit with it. It is really easy
> to setup/startup a webserver from Smalltalk now.

:)

> So I wrote a basic "HelpServer" and wrapped the nice "twitter bootstrap"
> library. Code may be ugly and require some refactoring ... but it is
> currently more a prove of concept.
>
> Attached is a screenshot of the result running in a web browser.

Sweet.

> What is it: the idea is that we server the documentation from within the
> image but use the local webbrowser to display it. Since we soon integrate NativeBoost in Pharo 2.0 it is also easy to open the browser as soon as "Help" is requested from a menu.
>
> Serving for the web would also mean we could easily setup an image
> online that displays the docu online for indexing by search engines etc.

Yes :)

> Where is the code:
>
> Next steps:
> ===========
>
> 1. Lets discuss how we want to fill the "API help" section. I know that
>    there once was a project that generated static API help  
>    (http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st) but we can now directly serve
>    from the live image.
>
>    My current implementation allows to navigate from classes to
>    subclasses and superclasses - just to give you an idea. Maybe we
>    want to display only class comments or provide a real Smalltalk
>    browser within the webbrowser (similar to http://www.Amber-lang.net)
>
> 2. The section "Intro" is only a mock. I would like to see that people
>    can find short "Quick start" like tutorials here to start with
>    basic things like Smalltalk, Metacello, ...
>
>    Maybe we can integrate a live and running ProfStef similar to
>    http://amber-lang.net/learn.html that is adopted to Pharo.

But amber is not pharo and it has the limit of Javascript I would not do that.

>
> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>    for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>    - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help

I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex
with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats.


> My wish to Santa would be that Pharo 2.0 comes with a better and
> nicer out-of-the-box documentation. For each package/project we should
> have a common way to define/load/browse docu and tutorials so people
> can just load and quick start without much hazzle.

:)

> The code repo is open for read and write - I would appreciate
> comments, code contributions, help/tutorial content and ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Torsten
> <onlinehelp.png>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

On 10 Nov 2012, at 21:33, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>>   for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>>   - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help
>
> I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex
> with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats.

I vote for Markdown, it is more like a defacto standard.
And you can convert Markdown into anything, there exit tons of tools for it.

Remember that I sent you my Zinc & Zodiac docs converted to Latex ? Were they no good ?

--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
http://stfx.eu
Smalltalk is the Red Pill




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stéphane Ducasse

On Nov 10, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

>
> On 10 Nov 2012, at 21:33, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>>>  for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>>>  - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help
>>
>> I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex
>> with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats.
>
> I vote for Markdown, it is more like a defacto standard.

I prefer pier since I can convert all the book macros (and I cannot do that in markdown).
I'm spending so much time writing that at least I want the result to look more than a bad documentation.

> And you can convert Markdown into anything, there exit tons of tools for it.
>
> Remember that I sent you my Zinc & Zodiac docs converted to Latex ? Were they no good ?

It depends at which level.
Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.

> --
> Sven Van Caekenberghe
> http://stfx.eu
> Smalltalk is the Red Pill
>
>
>
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Esteban A. Maringolo
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
> I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex
> with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats.

I vote for Markdown, it is more like a defacto standard.
And you can convert Markdown into anything, there exit tons of tools for it.
+1 Markdown all the way down.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
On 11 Nov 2012, at 17:26, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Nov 10, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
>
>> On 10 Nov 2012, at 21:33, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image"
>>>> for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator"
>>>> - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help
>>>
>>> I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex
>>> with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats.
>>
>> I vote for Markdown, it is more like a defacto standard.
>
> I prefer pier since I can convert all the book macros (and I cannot do that in markdown).
> I'm spending so much time writing that at least I want the result to look more than a bad documentation.
>
>> And you can convert Markdown into anything, there exit tons of tools for it.
>>
>> Remember that I sent you my Zinc & Zodiac docs converted to Latex ? Were they no good ?
>
> It depends at which level.
> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.

In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.

Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.

Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.

I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.

Sven
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Camillo Bruni-3
>> It depends at which level.
>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?

stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the solutions,
the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown parser!

>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.
>
> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>
> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>
> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.
>
> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.

my words!

So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost / ASMJit where we injected
custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I assume it will be
not that much work on top to get section links ready.

Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit verbose maybe but very
consistent.


so, please support:
https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Stéphane Ducasse
You won I put a filter markdown to thrash on my mail sadly.


On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

>>> It depends at which level.
>>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
>
> stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the solutions,
> the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown parser!
>
>>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
>>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.
>>
>> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>>
>> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
>> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>>
>> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.
>>
>> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.
>
> my words!
>
> So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost / ASMJit where we injected
> custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I assume it will be
> not that much work on top to get section links ready.
>
> Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit verbose maybe but very
> consistent.
>
>
> so, please support:
> https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Camillo Bruni-3

On 2012-11-12, at 15:56, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You won I put a filter markdown to thrash on my mail sadly.

?? I do not parse

> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>>>> It depends at which level.
>>>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
>>
>> stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the solutions,
>> the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown parser!
>>
>>>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
>>>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.
>>>
>>> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>>>
>>> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
>>> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>>>
>>> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.
>>>
>>> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.
>>
>> my words!
>>
>> So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost / ASMJit where we injected
>> custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I assume it will be
>> not that much work on top to get section links ready.
>>
>> Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit verbose maybe but very
>> consistent.
>>
>>
>> so, please support:
>> https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
>> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/
>
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Tudor Girba-2
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Hi,

I completely agree that the PIer syntax is rather niche these days, but we should not confuse the PIer syntax with the Pier model. I think that it would be beneficial to capitalize on this model (and all the infrastructure built on top of it) and simply create a Markdown support.

Cheers,
Doru


On 12 Nov 2012, at 15:56, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You won I put a filter markdown to thrash on my mail sadly.
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>>>> It depends at which level.
>>>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
>>
>> stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the solutions,
>> the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown parser!
>>
>>>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
>>>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.
>>>
>>> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>>>
>>> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
>>> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>>>
>>> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.
>>>
>>> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.
>>
>> my words!
>>
>> So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost / ASMJit where we injected
>> custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I assume it will be
>> not that much work on top to get section links ready.
>>
>> Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit verbose maybe but very
>> consistent.
>>
>>
>> so, please support:
>> https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
>> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/
>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

EstebanLM
+1

On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:57 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I completely agree that the PIer syntax is rather niche these days, but we should not confuse the PIer syntax with the Pier model. I think that it would be beneficial to capitalize on this model (and all the infrastructure built on top of it) and simply create a Markdown support.
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
> On 12 Nov 2012, at 15:56, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You won I put a filter markdown to thrash on my mail sadly.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>
>>>>> It depends at which level.
>>>>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
>>>
>>> stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the solutions,
>>> the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown parser!
>>>
>>>>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but
>>>>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown.
>>>>
>>>> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>>>>
>>>> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index is a special post process function anyway.
>>>> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>>>>
>>>> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object representation.
>>>>
>>>> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in our niche world, not in the larger world out there.
>>>
>>> my words!
>>>
>>> So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost / ASMJit where we injected
>>> custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I assume it will be
>>> not that much work on top to get section links ready.
>>>
>>> Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit verbose maybe but very
>>> consistent.
>>>
>>>
>>> so, please support:
>>> https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
>>> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/
>>
>>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>
>
>
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Camillo Bruni-3
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I completely agree that the PIer syntax is rather niche these days, but we should not confuse the PIer syntax with the Pier model. I think that it would be beneficial to capitalize on this model (and all the infrastructure built on top of it) and simply create a Markdown support.

yes, that makes perfectly sense!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
On 11/12/12, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1

+1

> On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:57 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I completely agree that the PIer syntax is rather niche these days, but we
>> should not confuse the PIer syntax with the Pier model. I think that it
>> would be beneficial to capitalize on this model (and all the
>> infrastructure built on top of it) and simply create a Markdown support.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 15:56, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You won I put a filter markdown to thrash on my mail sadly.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> It depends at which level.
>>>>>> Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index?
>>>>
>>>> stef, I already explained you that at least 4 times! Plus I gave you the
>>>> solutions,
>>>> the only thing I don't have is the time to complete the Markdown
>>>> parser!
>>>>
>>>>>> If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it
>>>>>> would be a different story but
>>>>>> so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even
>>>>>> markdown.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Markdown, it is *italic* or _italic_ and **bold** and __bold__.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now for index entries, I don't know exactly - making an automatic index
>>>>> is a special post process function anyway.
>>>>> I think you could do something like [ReadStream][index-entry]s are
>>>>> objects that you can read bytes or characters from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Making a book from several independent source files is quite a job that
>>>>> requires custom programming. It would be very cool if we could do all
>>>>> that in Smalltalk, using a good Markdown parser and a cool object
>>>>> representation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have nothing against Pier, but it is something that only exists in
>>>>> our niche world, not in the larger world out there.
>>>>
>>>> my words!
>>>>
>>>> So we already had a Markdown / HelpSystem crossover for NativeBoost /
>>>> ASMJit where we injected
>>>> custom URLs to add method and class links, that worked pretty well. So I
>>>> assume it will be
>>>> not that much work on top to get section links ready.
>>>>
>>>> Something like book://section/subsection is very easy to do, a bit
>>>> verbose maybe but very
>>>> consistent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so, please support:
>>>> https://github.com/dh83/PPMarkdown
>>>> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/petitmarkdown.html/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3
my 2c

markdown is not too rich as html.. but:
- it is easy to write markdown documents
- the text stays readable even without translating/formatting
markdown.. which is cool

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.