[ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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[ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
 
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Hello, I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL.  http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. |
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Hi Ronie,
This is great! Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? Alexandre > On May 12, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL. > > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-23-03.png> > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-24-30.png> > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics > https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 > > This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. > > With this API I did a basic gui toolkit, with only two widgets: buttons and label. I did this Widget toolkit to not mess with Bloc, and because I need something relatively stable for the Woden 2 level editor. For now, I am leaving this widget toolkit mostly as a demo. Hopefully it is possible to make Bloc backend using this API. > > During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. > > As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. > > Best regards, > Ronie -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. |
Re: [ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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Hi Alex, This is great! I do not know. If the Bloc people pointed me to the places that have to be modified, and if there are willing to have yet another backend, then I am willing to try adding the backend for Bloc. Best regards, Ronie 2017-05-12 20:01 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>: Hi Ronie, |
Re: [ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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Hi Ronie,
This is fascinating work! We will definitely look at this to see what it would take to have it as a Bloc backend. And thanks a lot for tackling the SDL2/OSWindow issue. We will test that as well. Cheers, Doru > On May 13, 2017, at 1:55 AM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > This is great! > Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? > I do not know. If the Bloc people pointed me to the places that have to be modified, and if there are willing to have yet another backend, then I am willing to try adding the backend for Bloc. > > Best regards, > Ronie > > 2017-05-12 20:01 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>: > Hi Ronie, > > This is great! > Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? > > Alexandre > > > > On May 12, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL. > > > > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-23-03.png> > > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-24-30.png> > > > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics > > https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 > > > > This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. > > > > With this API I did a basic gui toolkit, with only two widgets: buttons and label. I did this Widget toolkit to not mess with Bloc, and because I need something relatively stable for the Woden 2 level editor. For now, I am leaving this widget toolkit mostly as a demo. Hopefully it is possible to make Bloc backend using this API. > > > > During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. > > > > As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. > > > > Best regards, > > Ronie > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "One cannot do more than one can do." |
Re: [ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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In reply to this post by Ronie Salgado
Hi ronie This is super cool. I would prefer Volcano to Pompeii because lot of people died at pompeii but it the dead in Pharo are the old Morphs this is ok for me :) About the back end, this is really good to have multiple back-ends for Bloc. Stef On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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Esteban is preparing the release of Pharo 60 but I'm quite sure that he will integrate your PR for SDL20 and OSWindow. OSWindow is too important for us :) Now we need to move everything to use it but our plates were rather full. Stef On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Hey guys, can someone explain me why this is cool? :) Because the examples just have basic shapes with gradients & similar and AFAIK you could do that for a long time with Pharo and other technologies. Does Pompei mean that we can render complex graphics super fast? Is there an example for that? Uko
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Re: [ANN] Pompeii Volcanic Graphics, a mesh based 2D graphics API
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The cool thing is that the rendering can happen on the GPU (through OpenGL), which is the fastest you can get for rendering .
So, the current renderings are not the point. The point is the possibilities that are open once we have access to rendering 2D through OpenGL. Cheers, Doru > On May 13, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hey guys, can someone explain me why this is cool? :) > Because the examples just have basic shapes with gradients & similar and AFAIK you could do that for a long time with Pharo and other technologies. Does Pompei mean that we can render complex graphics super fast? Is there an example for that? > > Uko > >> On 13 May 2017, at 08:55, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Esteban is preparing the release of Pharo 60 but I'm quite sure that he will integrate your PR for SDL20 and OSWindow. >> OSWindow is too important for us :) >> Now we need to move everything to use it but our plates were rather full. >> >> Stef >> >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi ronie >> >> This is super cool. I would prefer Volcano to Pompeii because lot of people died at pompeii but it the dead in Pharo are the old Morphs this is ok for me :) >> About the back end, this is really good to have multiple back-ends for Bloc. >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi Alex, >> >> This is great! >> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >> I do not know. If the Bloc people pointed me to the places that have to be modified, and if there are willing to have yet another backend, then I am willing to try adding the backend for Bloc. >> >> Best regards, >> Ronie >> >> 2017-05-12 20:01 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>: >> Hi Ronie, >> >> This is great! >> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> > On May 12, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL. >> > >> > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-23-03.png> >> > <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-24-30.png> >> > >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics >> > https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 >> > >> > This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. >> > >> > With this API I did a basic gui toolkit, with only two widgets: buttons and label. I did this Widget toolkit to not mess with Bloc, and because I need something relatively stable for the Woden 2 level editor. For now, I am leaving this widget toolkit mostly as a demo. Hopefully it is possible to make Bloc backend using this API. >> > >> > During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. >> > >> > As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Ronie >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What we can governs what we wish." |
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Yes, I’m just not aware how Cairo and Moz2D are rendering the things the we ask them to. That’s why I wanted more info :)
> On 13 May 2017, at 13:29, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > > The cool thing is that the rendering can happen on the GPU (through OpenGL), which is the fastest you can get for rendering . > > So, the current renderings are not the point. The point is the possibilities that are open once we have access to rendering 2D through OpenGL. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On May 13, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Hey guys, can someone explain me why this is cool? :) >> Because the examples just have basic shapes with gradients & similar and AFAIK you could do that for a long time with Pharo and other technologies. Does Pompei mean that we can render complex graphics super fast? Is there an example for that? >> >> Uko >> >>> On 13 May 2017, at 08:55, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Esteban is preparing the release of Pharo 60 but I'm quite sure that he will integrate your PR for SDL20 and OSWindow. >>> OSWindow is too important for us :) >>> Now we need to move everything to use it but our plates were rather full. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi ronie >>> >>> This is super cool. I would prefer Volcano to Pompeii because lot of people died at pompeii but it the dead in Pharo are the old Morphs this is ok for me :) >>> About the back end, this is really good to have multiple back-ends for Bloc. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> This is great! >>> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >>> I do not know. If the Bloc people pointed me to the places that have to be modified, and if there are willing to have yet another backend, then I am willing to try adding the backend for Bloc. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Ronie >>> >>> 2017-05-12 20:01 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>: >>> Hi Ronie, >>> >>> This is great! >>> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>>> On May 12, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL. >>>> >>>> <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-23-03.png> >>>> <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-24-30.png> >>>> >>>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics >>>> https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 >>>> >>>> This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. >>>> >>>> With this API I did a basic gui toolkit, with only two widgets: buttons and label. I did this Widget toolkit to not mess with Bloc, and because I need something relatively stable for the Woden 2 level editor. For now, I am leaving this widget toolkit mostly as a demo. Hopefully it is possible to make Bloc backend using this API. >>>> >>>> During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. >>>> >>>> As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Ronie >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "What we can governs what we wish." > > > > > |
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Vectorial Graphics are CPU intensive, and is arguably if it is a good solution for rendering IDEs.
Using OpenGL 2D allows us to have another possibility, that will perform better in some scenarios. thanks Ronie for such a great work! Esteban > On 13 May 2017, at 15:19, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Yes, I’m just not aware how Cairo and Moz2D are rendering the things the we ask them to. That’s why I wanted more info :) > >> On 13 May 2017, at 13:29, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> The cool thing is that the rendering can happen on the GPU (through OpenGL), which is the fastest you can get for rendering . >> >> So, the current renderings are not the point. The point is the possibilities that are open once we have access to rendering 2D through OpenGL. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> On May 13, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Hey guys, can someone explain me why this is cool? :) >>> Because the examples just have basic shapes with gradients & similar and AFAIK you could do that for a long time with Pharo and other technologies. Does Pompei mean that we can render complex graphics super fast? Is there an example for that? >>> >>> Uko >>> >>>> On 13 May 2017, at 08:55, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Esteban is preparing the release of Pharo 60 but I'm quite sure that he will integrate your PR for SDL20 and OSWindow. >>>> OSWindow is too important for us :) >>>> Now we need to move everything to use it but our plates were rather full. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi ronie >>>> >>>> This is super cool. I would prefer Volcano to Pompeii because lot of people died at pompeii but it the dead in Pharo are the old Morphs this is ok for me :) >>>> About the back end, this is really good to have multiple back-ends for Bloc. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> This is great! >>>> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >>>> I do not know. If the Bloc people pointed me to the places that have to be modified, and if there are willing to have yet another backend, then I am willing to try adding the backend for Bloc. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Ronie >>>> >>>> 2017-05-12 20:01 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>: >>>> Hi Ronie, >>>> >>>> This is great! >>>> Do you know whether Pompeii can be used by Bloc? >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Ronie Salgado <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I am releasing a first version of a new 2D graphics API that I am making for Pharo, using OpenGL. >>>>> >>>>> <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-23-03.png> >>>>> <Captura de pantalla de 2017-05-12 18-24-30.png> >>>>> >>>>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/PompeiiGraphics >>>>> https://youtu.be/emE6_1RpAo8 >>>>> >>>>> This 2D graphics API is not vectorial based becase it does not use SVG style paths. This API is triangle mesh based, so it is more friendlier with the GPU than Athens or Sparta. >>>>> >>>>> With this API I did a basic gui toolkit, with only two widgets: buttons and label. I did this Widget toolkit to not mess with Bloc, and because I need something relatively stable for the Woden 2 level editor. For now, I am leaving this widget toolkit mostly as a demo. Hopefully it is possible to make Bloc backend using this API. >>>>> >>>>> During the process of making this API, I had to fix several bugs with OSWindow, and bugs in the interaction between OSWindow and OpenGL. The biggest problem was a race condition between the creation of an OSWindow using SDL2, and the events (such as Expose) that are sent to the just created Window. >>>>> >>>>> As for Mac OS X, OSWindow is out of service until a pull request ( https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/pull/138 ) gets integrated into the VM. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Ronie >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "What we can governs what we wish." >> >> >> >> >> > > |
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