Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3]. The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way. Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported. It includes many features like - numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles - support for images - multiple level undo and redo - text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words - RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin) The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0. The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you. We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-) Cheers, Bernhard Pieber [1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor [2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor [3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUoVbvwspi8&list=PL813665D04A2E4C0A&index=7&feature=plpp_video |
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done? Phil 2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> Dear Smalltalkers, Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges |
In reply to this post by bpi
On Apr 21, 2012, at 9:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Great news! > > I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. > Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future? Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de |
In reply to this post by philippeback
Thanks for the encouragement! The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind? Cheers, Bernhard P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet? Am 21.04.2012 um 21:17 schrieb "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>:
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In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
+1
Well, it takes a while to wrap one's mind around it.
I realize how lucky I was with Swing documentation with Java when developing a UI intensive app. Lack of doc about all of these things is really a huge issue. Spec helps but once I wanted to see what was under the hood, it is back to digging into bowels;
Still digging on... Phil 2012/4/21 Marcus Denker <[hidden email]>
Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges |
In reply to this post by bpi
Yeah VM works on iOS.
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends. For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text.
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now. Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]>
Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges |
Cool! I totally agree. That's one reason why I started the Styled Text Editor project. ;-) Cheers, Bernhard
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In reply to this post by philippeback
On Apr 21, 2012, at 10:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > +1 > > Well, it takes a while to wrap one's mind around it. > > I realize how lucky I was with Swing documentation with Java when developing a UI intensive app. > > Lack of doc about all of these things is really a huge issue. Spec helps but once I wanted to see what was under the hood, it is back to digging into bowels; 100% agree. > > Still digging on... > > Phil > > 2012/4/21 Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> > > On Apr 21, 2012, at 9:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > > > Great news! > > > > I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. > > > > Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future? > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > > > > -- > Philippe Back > "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" > > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: > http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > |
In reply to this post by philippeback
note that igor started to rewrite a part of paragraph editor or textmorph because Athens needs a good text model.
Stef On Apr 21, 2012, at 10:22 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Yeah VM works on iOS. > > My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends. > > For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text. > > I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now. > > Phil > > 2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> > Thanks for the encouragement! > > The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind? > > Cheers, > Bernhard > > P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet? > > Am 21.04.2012 um 21:17 schrieb "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>: > >> Great news! >> >> I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. >> >> I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure. >> >> How much funding would be necessary to get this port done? >> >> Phil >> >> 2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> >> Dear Smalltalkers, >> >> I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3]. >> >> The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way. >> >> Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported. >> >> It includes many features like >> - numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles >> - support for images >> - multiple level undo and redo >> - text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words >> - RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin) >> >> The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0. >> >> The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you. >> >> We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Bernhard Pieber >> >> [1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor >> [2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor >> [3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUoVbvwspi8&list=PL813665D04A2E4C0A&index=7&feature=plpp_video >> >> >> >> -- >> Philippe Back >> "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" >> >> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: >> http://philippeback.be >> >> High Octane SPRL >> rue cour Boisacq 101 >> 1301 Bierges >> > > > > -- > Philippe Back > "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" > > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: > http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > |
In reply to this post by bpi
On 21/04/2012 19:20, Bernhard Pieber wrote:
> Dear Smalltalkers, > > I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3]. > > The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way. Well, with Pharo 1.4, Cuis 4.0 and now this among others we're just being showered with great stuff, congratulations :) This sounds like it would work well with the ePub support I believe was mentioned for a google summer project. |
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of
your biased opinions? Squeak is a fantastic media authoring environment -- even old versions from years past embarass programs like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..? In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye." On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Apr 21, 2012, at 9:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > >> Great news! >> >> I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. >> > > Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future? > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > |
Ah come on, the code is powerful but not that approachable. Dan Ingalls even recognized that his text-flowing-through-a-tube was just to prove it was doable, not that it was maintainable or anything.
Cuis does less but is nicer to learn. Pharo is opinionated but a benevolent dictatorship is (for me) better than anarchy that runs in circles.
And without new learners, guess what? You die. A slow death but a death. I don't want to touch Squeak with pole anymore now that Pharo and Cuis are around.
That's my biased opinion and I stand by it, especially by 2012 standards.
Phil 2012/4/22 Chris Muller <[hidden email]> Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges |
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
On Apr 22, 2012, at 8:04 PM, Chris Muller wrote: > Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of > your biased opinions? Wow, why so aggressive? Do you really do *not* see the problems that there are in Squeak? > Squeak is a fantastic media authoring > environment It is not. I was a promising *idea* (and part protopype) of a fantastic media enviroment in 1998. But then interestingly everyone decided that the best is to not improve it or make it real. > -- even old versions from years past embarass programs > like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember > the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one > text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text > box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..? > It's a toy example. Adding a character means re-flowing everything. Unusable for larger texts. > In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of > power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so > reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye." > The complexity in Squeak code does *not* come from the domain. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de |
Sure, such strong opinions are going nowhere.
and this thread isn't going to produce anything constructive as it started. Please take a more professional p.o.v. and tell which feature is lacking, which one is superfluous. Then, and only then, start discussing what is unnecessarily complex in current implementation and propose possible alternative implementations. I insist on the features. For example, the fact that every class was cloned to implement internationalization certainly participates to such complexity, but the right question is about the features: should internationalization be optional and un-loadable or is it mandatory? Nicolas Le 22 avril 2012 20:34, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> a écrit : > > On Apr 22, 2012, at 8:04 PM, Chris Muller wrote: > >> Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of >> your biased opinions? > > Wow, why so aggressive? Do you really do *not* see the problems > that there are in Squeak? > >> Squeak is a fantastic media authoring >> environment > > It is not. I was a promising *idea* (and part protopype) of a fantastic media > enviroment in 1998. But then interestingly everyone decided that the best is > to not improve it or make it real. > >> -- even old versions from years past embarass programs >> like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember >> the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one >> text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text >> box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..? >> > It's a toy example. Adding a character means re-flowing everything. > Unusable for larger texts. > >> In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of >> power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so >> reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye." >> > > The complexity in Squeak code does *not* come from the domain. > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > |
In reply to this post by bpi
Great.. been looking forward to this for a long time..
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> wrote: Dear Smalltalkers, |
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
More precisely the model was changed (and need more effort) so that we can use the logic of systems like opengl, cairo…
We are waiting that alain defends his HDR to help us adapting all the textMorph to the new model now if somebody want to have a look let us know. Stef On Apr 21, 2012, at 11:26 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > note that igor started to rewrite a part of paragraph editor or textmorph because Athens needs a good text model. > > Stef > On Apr 21, 2012, at 10:22 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > >> Yeah VM works on iOS. >> >> My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends. >> >> For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text. >> >> I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now. >> >> Phil >> >> 2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> >> Thanks for the encouragement! >> >> The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind? >> >> Cheers, >> Bernhard >> >> P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet? >> >> Am 21.04.2012 um 21:17 schrieb "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>: >> >>> Great news! >>> >>> I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows. >>> >>> I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure. >>> >>> How much funding would be necessary to get this port done? >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> 2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <[hidden email]> >>> Dear Smalltalkers, >>> >>> I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3]. >>> >>> The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way. >>> >>> Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported. >>> >>> It includes many features like >>> - numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles >>> - support for images >>> - multiple level undo and redo >>> - text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words >>> - RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin) >>> >>> The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0. >>> >>> The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you. >>> >>> We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Bernhard Pieber >>> >>> [1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor >>> [2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor >>> [3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUoVbvwspi8&list=PL813665D04A2E4C0A&index=7&feature=plpp_video >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Philippe Back >>> "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" >>> >>> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: >>> http://philippeback.be >>> >>> High Octane SPRL >>> rue cour Boisacq 101 >>> 1301 Bierges >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Philippe Back >> "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" >> >> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: >> http://philippeback.be >> >> High Octane SPRL >> rue cour Boisacq 101 >> 1301 Bierges >> > > |
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
Hi folks!
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo? Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis). Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts? regards, Göran |
Hi Göran,
On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, Göran Krampe wrote: > Hi folks! > > Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. > Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo? > > Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis). Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts? I am not familiar with the subject, but it seems like a nice editor was written on top of a specific GUI framework on top of Cuis, a nice, clean Smalltalk. The question of porting seems like asking to convert an very GUI intensive app from the Microsoft Windows API to the Apple Cocoa API, or vice versa. How realistic can that be, without forking ? Sven |
Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, Göran Krampe wrote: >> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations here. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si |
On 23 Apr 2012, at 12:25, Janko Mivšek wrote: > Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piše Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >> On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, Göran Krampe wrote: > >>> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > >> Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. > > No, it was Marcus, be fair please. No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion. How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ? Sven PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-) |
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