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[ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

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Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

>>> - Lukas went over the WeakAnnouncements implementation to get the WeakMessageSend working. The code is in PharoTaskForces
>>
>> should we take action on this one?
>> I mean integrating it.
>
> It can be integrated, because the base code works in the same way as before.
>
> Currently, the solution is implemented through a WeakAnnouncer which subclasses Announcer. I wanted the weak thing to be merged, because the clients of announcements should benefit from the Weak implementation, but Lukas says that he does not trust the Weak support in Pharo and that if you have many WeakAnnouncers it somehow does not scale.

ok so ...?

> The problem with the current approach is that models have to take an explicit stand of whether they want weak or non weak when instantiating the announcer. Unfortunately, I do have enough technical knowledge for this. It would be cool if someone with better knowledge in this area would take a look.
>
>>> - Lukas worked on getting OB work with the changes in TextMorph from Pharo 1.2.
>>>
>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :)
>>>
>>> - Mircea built a new widget for searching multiple categories of items in the same time, similar to spotlight where you enter one string and you get multiple hits from multiple categories. The implementation was spawned from the OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest and currently it simply provides multiple lists one below the other. The idea is to use this kind of widget to search simultaneously for classes / methods / packages. The code is available in Glamour (Glamour-Morphic-Renderer). The widget can definitely be improved visually, but Mircea already did a nice job.
>>
>> is the widget only for glamour because I think that a widget with search list integrated should be used everywhere?
>> We were discussing with alain to have a look at the one in OB and push it/rewrite it as a core widget
>
> Neither the OB nor the Glamour widgets depend on Glamour, so they can be used independently. You just need to take the Request and the Dialog together.

ok where is the code?

Tudor Girba

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

Hi,

On 27 Feb 2011, at 12:04, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

>>>> - Lukas went over the WeakAnnouncements implementation to get the WeakMessageSend working. The code is in PharoTaskForces
>>>
>>> should we take action on this one?
>>> I mean integrating it.
>>
>> It can be integrated, because the base code works in the same way as before.
>>
>> Currently, the solution is implemented through a WeakAnnouncer which subclasses Announcer. I wanted the weak thing to be merged, because the clients of announcements should benefit from the Weak implementation, but Lukas says that he does not trust the Weak support in Pharo and that if you have many WeakAnnouncers it somehow does not scale.
>
> ok so ...?

So, we need to investigate more :). It would be cool if someone with more knowledge would take a look, too. Igor, would you have a bit of time to look into it?

I will probably also give it a look to see how it works in the context of Glamour. I hope that Esteban will join me again. Esteban, what do you say :)?

>> The problem with the current approach is that models have to take an explicit stand of whether they want weak or non weak when instantiating the announcer. Unfortunately, I do have enough technical knowledge for this. It would be cool if someone with better knowledge in this area would take a look.
>>
>>>> - Lukas worked on getting OB work with the changes in TextMorph from Pharo 1.2.
>>>>
>>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :)
>>>>
>>>> - Mircea built a new widget for searching multiple categories of items in the same time, similar to spotlight where you enter one string and you get multiple hits from multiple categories. The implementation was spawned from the OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest and currently it simply provides multiple lists one below the other. The idea is to use this kind of widget to search simultaneously for classes / methods / packages. The code is available in Glamour (Glamour-Morphic-Renderer). The widget can definitely be improved visually, but Mircea already did a nice job.
>>>
>>> is the widget only for glamour because I think that a widget with search list integrated should be used everywhere?
>>> We were discussing with alain to have a look at the one in OB and push it/rewrite it as a core widget
>>
>> Neither the OB nor the Glamour widgets depend on Glamour, so they can be used independently. You just need to take the Request and the Dialog together.
>
>
> ok where is the code?

OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest come with the OB from Pharo 1.2. The way to use it is like:

OBCompletionRequest new
prompt: 'Find Class';
searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ];
signal.

The GLMSpotterRequest / GLMMorphicSpotterDialog are in Glamour-Morphic-Renderer. You can use them like

| composite classRequest methodRequest thirdRequest |
composite := GLMSpotterRequest new.

classRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
prompt: 'Find Class';
searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ].

methodRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
prompt: 'Object Selectors';
searchBlock: [ :string | Object selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
labelBlock: [ :e | e ].

thirdRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
prompt: 'Other Selectors';
searchBlock: [ :string | Class selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
labelBlock: [ :e | e ].

composite
add: classRequest;
add: methodRequest;
add: thirdRequest;
signal

Cheers,
Doru

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

EstebanLM

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

Hi,
Yes I'm willing to join you to another "glamour work day" :)
Let's say next saturday?

best,
Esteban

El 27/02/2011, a las 11:36a.m., Tudor Girba escribió:

> Hi,
>
> On 27 Feb 2011, at 12:04, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>>>>> - Lukas went over the WeakAnnouncements implementation to get the WeakMessageSend working. The code is in PharoTaskForces
>>>>
>>>> should we take action on this one?
>>>> I mean integrating it.
>>>
>>> It can be integrated, because the base code works in the same way as before.
>>>
>>> Currently, the solution is implemented through a WeakAnnouncer which subclasses Announcer. I wanted the weak thing to be merged, because the clients of announcements should benefit from the Weak implementation, but Lukas says that he does not trust the Weak support in Pharo and that if you have many WeakAnnouncers it somehow does not scale.
>>
>> ok so ...?
>
> So, we need to investigate more :). It would be cool if someone with more knowledge would take a look, too. Igor, would you have a bit of time to look into it?
>
> I will probably also give it a look to see how it works in the context of Glamour. I hope that Esteban will join me again. Esteban, what do you say :)?
>
>
>>> The problem with the current approach is that models have to take an explicit stand of whether they want weak or non weak when instantiating the announcer. Unfortunately, I do have enough technical knowledge for this. It would be cool if someone with better knowledge in this area would take a look.
>>>
>>>>> - Lukas worked on getting OB work with the changes in TextMorph from Pharo 1.2.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :)
>>>>>
>>>>> - Mircea built a new widget for searching multiple categories of items in the same time, similar to spotlight where you enter one string and you get multiple hits from multiple categories. The implementation was spawned from the OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest and currently it simply provides multiple lists one below the other. The idea is to use this kind of widget to search simultaneously for classes / methods / packages. The code is available in Glamour (Glamour-Morphic-Renderer). The widget can definitely be improved visually, but Mircea already did a nice job.
>>>>
>>>> is the widget only for glamour because I think that a widget with search list integrated should be used everywhere?
>>>> We were discussing with alain to have a look at the one in OB and push it/rewrite it as a core widget
>>>
>>> Neither the OB nor the Glamour widgets depend on Glamour, so they can be used independently. You just need to take the Request and the Dialog together.
>>
>>
>> ok where is the code?
>
>
> OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest come with the OB from Pharo 1.2. The way to use it is like:
>
> OBCompletionRequest new
> prompt: 'Find Class';
> searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
> labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
> iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ];
> signal.
>
> The GLMSpotterRequest / GLMMorphicSpotterDialog are in Glamour-Morphic-Renderer. You can use them like
>
> | composite classRequest methodRequest thirdRequest |
> composite := GLMSpotterRequest new.
>
> classRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
> prompt: 'Find Class';
> searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
> labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
> iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ].
>
> methodRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
> prompt: 'Object Selectors';
> searchBlock: [ :string | Object selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
> labelBlock: [ :e | e ].
>
> thirdRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
> prompt: 'Other Selectors';
> searchBlock: [ :string | Class selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
> labelBlock: [ :e | e ].
>
> composite
> add: classRequest;
> add: methodRequest;
> add: thirdRequest;
> signal
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
>
>

Tudor Girba

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

Great! Let's give it a try :)

Cheers,
Doru

On 28 Feb 2011, at 22:58, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> Hi,
> Yes I'm willing to join you to another "glamour work day" :)
> Let's say next saturday?
>
> best,
> Esteban
>
> El 27/02/2011, a las 11:36a.m., Tudor Girba escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 27 Feb 2011, at 12:04, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>>>>> - Lukas went over the WeakAnnouncements implementation to get the WeakMessageSend working. The code is in PharoTaskForces
>>>>>
>>>>> should we take action on this one?
>>>>> I mean integrating it.
>>>>
>>>> It can be integrated, because the base code works in the same way as before.
>>>>
>>>> Currently, the solution is implemented through a WeakAnnouncer which subclasses Announcer. I wanted the weak thing to be merged, because the clients of announcements should benefit from the Weak implementation, but Lukas says that he does not trust the Weak support in Pharo and that if you have many WeakAnnouncers it somehow does not scale.
>>>
>>> ok so ...?
>>
>> So, we need to investigate more :). It would be cool if someone with more knowledge would take a look, too. Igor, would you have a bit of time to look into it?
>>
>> I will probably also give it a look to see how it works in the context of Glamour. I hope that Esteban will join me again. Esteban, what do you say :)?
>>
>>
>>>> The problem with the current approach is that models have to take an explicit stand of whether they want weak or non weak when instantiating the announcer. Unfortunately, I do have enough technical knowledge for this. It would be cool if someone with better knowledge in this area would take a look.
>>>>
>>>>>> - Lukas worked on getting OB work with the changes in TextMorph from Pharo 1.2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Mircea built a new widget for searching multiple categories of items in the same time, similar to spotlight where you enter one string and you get multiple hits from multiple categories. The implementation was spawned from the OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest and currently it simply provides multiple lists one below the other. The idea is to use this kind of widget to search simultaneously for classes / methods / packages. The code is available in Glamour (Glamour-Morphic-Renderer). The widget can definitely be improved visually, but Mircea already did a nice job.
>>>>>
>>>>> is the widget only for glamour because I think that a widget with search list integrated should be used everywhere?
>>>>> We were discussing with alain to have a look at the one in OB and push it/rewrite it as a core widget
>>>>
>>>> Neither the OB nor the Glamour widgets depend on Glamour, so they can be used independently. You just need to take the Request and the Dialog together.
>>>
>>>
>>> ok where is the code?
>>
>>
>> OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest come with the OB from Pharo 1.2. The way to use it is like:
>>
>> OBCompletionRequest new
>> prompt: 'Find Class';
>> searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
>> labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
>> iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ];
>> signal.
>>
>> The GLMSpotterRequest / GLMMorphicSpotterDialog are in Glamour-Morphic-Renderer. You can use them like
>>
>> | composite classRequest methodRequest thirdRequest |
>> composite := GLMSpotterRequest new.
>>
>> classRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
>> prompt: 'Find Class';
>> searchBlock: [ :string | OBCmdFindClass new findClassIn: Smalltalk pattern: string ];
>> labelBlock: [ :class | class name ];
>> iconBlock: [ :class | class browserIcon ].
>>
>> methodRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
>> prompt: 'Object Selectors';
>> searchBlock: [ :string | Object selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
>> labelBlock: [ :e | e ].
>>
>> thirdRequest := GLMSingleSpotterRequest new
>> prompt: 'Other Selectors';
>> searchBlock: [ :string | Class selectors select: [:e| string, '*' match: e asString] ];
>> labelBlock: [ :e | e ].
>>
>> composite
>> add: classRequest;
>> add: methodRequest;
>> add: thirdRequest;
>> signal
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
>>
>>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

Luc Fabresse

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

In reply to this post by Tudor Girba

Hi,

2011/2/26 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>

Hi,

The sprint was quite exciting.

Here is the twitter report:
http://twitter.com/#!/search/pharosprint

Here is a longer report:

- Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :)

Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.

He has worked on a remote debugger.

@Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger in Glamour.

AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ...

so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible debugger ;-)

Cheers,

#Luc

- Mircea built a new widget for searching multiple categories of items in the same time, similar to spotlight where you enter one string and you get multiple hits from multiple categories. The implementation was spawned from the OBCompletionDialog / OBCompletionRequest and currently it simply provides multiple lists one below the other. The idea is to use this kind of widget to search simultaneously for classes / methods / packages. The code is available in Glamour (Glamour-Morphic-Renderer). The widget can definitely be improved visually, but Mircea already did a nice job.

- I showed the current prototypes available in the Glamorous Toolkit (built with Glamour). It looks like we got a consensus that we should focus on rethinking the IDEs, and that Glamour can be a promising infrastructure. For this to work, we distinguished between the work needed at the widget level (like the work of Mircea and Camillo), and the work needed at the level of playing with new metaphors for browsing. The Glamorous Toolkit already provides a number of examples for: ObjectFinder, Chaser, Playground (ex-Workspace), MessageTallyBrowser, ProfStef, and some Coders. If you want to play with the early versions of these tools, you can get them here (just keep in mind that they are intended as exercises at the moment):
Gofer new squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; load.
(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) perform: #loadDefault.

Cheers,
Doru

On 26 Feb 2011, at 19:06, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> so doru I just arrived after a trip from the nearly "westernest" town in france to nearly the "northest" one :)
> What are the results of the sprint.
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:
>
>> We are starting the sprint:
>> - Twitter tag: #pharosprint
>> - If someone wants to join remotely, let us know how to reach you. Gary, Alain? :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> On 25 Feb 2011, at 20:39, Tudor Girba wrote:
>>
>>> Phenomenal :)
>>>
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Feb 2011, at 13:03, Jorge Ressia wrote:
>>>
>>>> I will be there too.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Excellent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Feb 2011, at 22:29, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am coming too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lukas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 February 2011 05:27, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22 Feb 2011, at 19:47, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll be there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From what I have done this week so far, I would like to work on extending the IDE and reduce the amount of clicks / keystrokes to browse things...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> m(o_o)m
>>>>>>>> camillo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2011-02-21, at 19:42, Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would like to remind you that this Saturday, February 26, we organize a Sprint at SCG, University of Berne, Switzerland (room 107):
>>>>>>>>> http://scg.unibe.ch/contact/maps
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Further details can be found below. Please let us know by mail if you plan to attend and what you would wish to work on (see below).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: 1 February 2011 16:38:30 CET
>>>>>>>>>> To: "[hidden email] Development" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We would like to organize a Pharo Sprint on Saturday, February 26 at SCG, University of Berne, Switzerland (room 107):
>>>>>>>>>> http://scg.unibe.ch/contact/maps
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unlike other sprints, this would not be about fixing things from the tracker, but about building something new and reviewing the situation around one central topic. For this one, the main topic will be Morphic and the IDE. Why? Because it is time to rethink our day-to-day tools and bring them closer to this century (ok, maybe decade :)). It is Ok if you are not a specialist. It is more important to want to participate and learn. The rest will come in time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ***** Please let us know by mail if you plan to attend and what you would wish to work on (see below).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Proposed tasks (other tasks are possible in the same area):
>>>>>>>>>> - Enhancements of Morphic widgets:
>>>>>>>>>> --- TabGroupMorph with lazy pages, closable tabs, overflow handling and toolbars (a start exists in Glamour)
>>>>>>>>>> --- High level support for collapsable panes (based on the input of Gary)
>>>>>>>>>> --- SearchMorph with multiple groups of items (like in Spotlight)
>>>>>>>>>> --- MorphTreeMorph integrated with GeneralScrollPane to allow for space filling
>>>>>>>>>> --- BreadcrumbMorph
>>>>>>>>>> --- Hyperlinks in TextMorphs
>>>>>>>>>> - Test and enhance the current IDE
>>>>>>>>>> - Evaluate TextMorphs: NewTextMorph, PluggableTextMorph, SMxPluggableTextMorph etc
>>>>>>>>>> - Prototype a new ToolSet solution
>>>>>>>>>> - Enhancements of Glamour and of the Glamorous Toolkit
>>>>>>>>>> --- Debugger
>>>>>>>>>> --- Coder
>>>>>>>>>> --- Multipage Workspace
>>>>>>>>>> --- CodeBubbles
>>>>>>>>>> - Develop WeakAnnouncement (start from the implementation of Lukas)
>>>>>>>>>> - Evaluate the various keybinding implementations
>>>>>>>>>> - Evaluate ToolBuilder
>>>>>>>>>> - Evaluate the path to adopt SimpleMorphic
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A second working topic is getting Monticello faster, but this will only be tackled if there are enough people for the first one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Adrian and Doru
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "It's not how it is, it is how we see it."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Value is always contextual."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lukas Renggli
>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jorge Ressia
>>>> www.jorgeressia.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Yesterday is a fact.
>>> Tomorrow is a possibility.
>>> Today is a challenge."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

Adrian Lienhard

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

On Mar 2, 2011, at 20:33 , Luc Fabresse wrote:

>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of
>> Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions:
>> step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model,
>> and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method
>> should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work
>> quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did
>> I get it right? :)
>>
>
> Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.
> He has worked on a remote debugger.
> @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger
> in Glamour.
> AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ...
> so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible
> debugger ;-)

Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc.

Adrian

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

+ 1

>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of
>>> Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions:
>>> step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model,
>>> and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method
>>> should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work
>>> quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did
>>> I get it right? :)
>>>
>>
>> Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.
>> He has worked on a remote debugger.
>> @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger
>> in Glamour.
>> AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ...
>> so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible
>> debugger ;-)
>
> Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc.
>
> Adrian

Igor Stasenko

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard

On 2 March 2011 20:56, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mar 2, 2011, at 20:33 , Luc Fabresse wrote:
>
>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of
>>> Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions:
>>> step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model,
>>> and to figure out that <primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method
>>> should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work
>>> quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did
>>> I get it right? :)
>>>
>>
>> Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.
>> He has worked on a remote debugger.
>> @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger
>> in Glamour.
>> AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ...
>> so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible
>> debugger ;-)
>
> Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc.
>

even if you copy it, we still badly need remote tools. :)
Because we really cannot rely on having RFB installed on every
headless image. It could be much more nicer and sexier
to have small kernel image with small dispatcher to which you can
connect and communicate with image remotely,
without need of carrying Morphic blob inside it.

> Adrian
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Toon Verwaest-2

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

I'm working on extracting everything to a model. DebuggerMethodMap is a
mess so we'll also have our own version of that class. Other methods
that I found too messy are rewritten in the model.

Still work to be done, and Cog for linux doesn't like me committing code
to MC (it just crashes when I click save); so ... But it'll get there ;)
Most of the functionality is already there.

Making it all remote shouldn't be too much of a problem. The debugger
just relies on the debugger model and a list of objects that represent
the stack. All actual evaluating actions can easily be forwarded over a
proxy to the remote model.

cheers,
Toon

On 03/13/2011 01:31 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> On 2 March 2011 20:56, Adrian Lienhard<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Mar 2, 2011, at 20:33 , Luc Fabresse wrote:
>>
>>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of
>>>> Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions:
>>>> step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model,
>>>> and to figure out that<primitive: 19> is used for marking that a method
>>>> should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work
>>>> quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did
>>>> I get it right? :)
>>>>
>>> Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.
>>> He has worked on a remote debugger.
>>> @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger
>>> in Glamour.
>>> AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ...
>>> so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible
>>> debugger ;-)
>> Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc.
>>
> even if you copy it, we still badly need remote tools. :)
> Because we really cannot rely on having RFB installed on every
> headless image. It could be much more nicer and sexier
> to have small kernel image with small dispatcher to which you can
> connect and communicate with image remotely,
> without need of carrying Morphic blob inside it.

Igor Stasenko

Re: Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26

On 13 March 2011 02:17, Toon Verwaest <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm working on extracting everything to a model. DebuggerMethodMap is a mess
> so we'll also have our own version of that class. Other methods that I found
> too messy are rewritten in the model.
>
> Still work to be done, and Cog for linux doesn't like me committing code to
> MC (it just crashes when I click save); so ... But it'll get there ;) Most
> of the functionality is already there.

You can use Stack interpreter VM
https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Cog/job/Stack%20VM%20Unix/

which can open images saved by JIT-based one, and see if it can do
things which leading to crash under JIT.

>
> Making it all remote shouldn't be too much of a problem. The debugger just
> relies on the debugger model and a list of objects that represent the stack.
> All actual evaluating actions can easily be forwarded over a proxy to the
> remote model.
>
> cheers,
> Toon
>
> On 03/13/2011 01:31 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>> On 2 March 2011 20:56, Adrian Lienhard<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2011, at 20:33 , Luc Fabresse wrote:
>>>
>>>>> - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of
>>>>> Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic
>>>>> actions:
>>>>> step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the
>>>>> model,
>>>>> and to figure out that<primitive: 19> is used for marking that a
>>>>> method
>>>>> should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to
>>>>> work
>>>>> quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian,
>>>>> did
>>>>> I get it right? :)
>>>>>
>>>> Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger.
>>>> He has worked on a remote debugger.
>>>> @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a
>>>> debugger
>>>> in Glamour.
>>>> AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees,
>>>> ...
>>>> so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible
>>>> debugger ;-)
>>>
>>> Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the
>>> original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over
>>> to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we
>>> would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour
>>> debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc.
>>>
>> even if you copy it, we still badly need remote tools. :)
>> Because we really cannot rely on having RFB installed on every
>> headless image. It could be much more nicer and sexier
>> to have small kernel image with small dispatcher to which you can
>> connect and communicate with image remotely,
>> without need of carrying Morphic blob inside it.
>
>
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.