About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

> Hello,
>
> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
> Is that normal ?
>
> François
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> I renamed the methods #metaclass and #nonMetaclass, because these
> selectors are not polymorphic with what is standard in the Pharo class
> hierarchy where #theMetaclass and #theNonMetaclass are used.
>
> Looks like O2-Refactory and other external users needs to be updated.
>
> I changed all senders OB-Refactory.
>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/10/30 François Tanguy <[hidden email]>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
>> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
>> Is that normal ?
>>
>> François
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/seaside/ax
>
> or
>
> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/browse
>
> 2009/10/30 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>
> > http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/
>
> I get a: Error: "/seaside/" not found.
>
> Alexandre
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
>
> --
> Cédrick
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Hi!
>
> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>   (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework 
> )
>   just like the Announcements package in Pharo
> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html 
> ).
> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and  
> integrated
> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix  
> came
> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted  
> the
> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was  
> available
> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>
> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per  
> announcer.
>
> Cheers,
> Levente
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> I renamed the methods #metaclass and #nonMetaclass, because these
> selectors are not polymorphic with what is standard in the Pharo class
> hierarchy where #theMetaclass and #theNonMetaclass are used.
>
> Looks like O2-Refactory and other external users needs to be updated.
>
> I changed all senders OB-Refactory.
>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/10/30 François Tanguy <[hidden email]>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
>> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
>> Is that normal ?
>>
>> François
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Levente
>
> what I would really love :)
> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
> your experience.
> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the core
> would be enhanced and we
> could clarified the license.
>
> Stef
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>> )
>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>> ).
>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>> integrated
>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>> came
>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>> the
>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>> available
>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>
>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>> announcer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Levente
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
> add some tests and code.
>
> Stef
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Levente
>>
>> what I would really love :)
>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>> your experience.
>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the core
>> would be enhanced and we
>> could clarified the license.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>> )
>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>> ).
>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>> integrated
>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>> came
>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>> the
>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>> available
>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>
>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>> announcer.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Levente
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided  
> previously,
> it should be in Pharo core?
>
> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>> add some tests and code.
>>
>> Stef
>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> Levente
>>>
>>> what I would really love :)
>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>>> your experience.
>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the  
>>> core
>>> would be enhanced and we
>>> could clarified the license.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>> )
>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>> ).
>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>> integrated
>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>>> came
>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found  
>>>> announcements
>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>>> the
>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>> available
>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>
>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower  
>>>> code
>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions  
>>>> and
>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>> announcer.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Levente
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Stef
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
>> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided
>> previously,
>> it should be in Pharo core?
>>
>> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>>> add some tests and code.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Levente
>>>>
>>>> what I would really love :)
>>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>>>> your experience.
>>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the
>>>> core
>>>> would be enhanced and we
>>>> could clarified the license.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>>> )
>>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>>> ).
>>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>>> integrated
>>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>>>> came
>>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found
>>>>> announcements
>>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>>>> the
>>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>>> available
>>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower
>>>>> code
>>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions
>>>>> and
>>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>>> announcer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Levente
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> This could be a possibility now I think that this is nice that people
>> get a chance to check it and discuss.
>>
>
> yes, please decide. :) Because from that decision, we could then plan
> a new system-change annoucements layer
> + package system.
> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
> useful stuff on top of it.
>
>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
>>> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided
>>> previously,
>>> it should be in Pharo core?
>>>
>>> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>>>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>>>> add some tests and code.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Levente
>>>>>
>>>>> what I would really love :)
>>>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based  
>>>>> on
>>>>> your experience.
>>>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the
>>>>> core
>>>>> would be enhanced and we
>>>>> could clarified the license.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>>>> ).
>>>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX  
>>>>>> prefix
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found
>>>>>> announcements
>>>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we  
>>>>>> extracted
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>>>> announcer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Levente
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- 
>>>>> project
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
>> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
>> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
>> useful stuff on top of it.
>
> I have used these announcements in many large projects and I never
> needed to add anything. In fact, I would even vote to remove
> AnnouncementSet as I never used it or saw it used anywhere. Initially,
> I found it cool because the same trick is applied in the Exception
> hierarchy. Major projects like OmniBrowser (and to some extent also
> Seaside) use an even smaller subset of the functionality provided in
> the core package.
>
> The only thing that is maybe missing are weak announcements. I guess
> that could be useful, if Pharo provided a solid implementation of weak
> objects.
>

> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

>> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
>> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
>> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
>> useful stuff on top of it.
>
> I have used these announcements in many large projects and I never
> needed to add anything. In fact, I would even vote to remove
> AnnouncementSet as I never used it or saw it used anywhere. Initially,
> I found it cool because the same trick is applied in the Exception
> hierarchy. Major projects like OmniBrowser (and to some extent also
> Seaside) use an even smaller subset of the functionality provided in
> the core package.
>
> The only thing that is maybe missing are weak announcements. I guess
> that could be useful, if Pharo provided a solid implementation of weak
> objects.
>
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project