About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

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About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Levente Uzonyi-2
Hi!

Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
- is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
- is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
   (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework)
   just like the Announcements package in Pharo
- is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html).
We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and integrated
it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix came
from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted the
code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was available
at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.

For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per announcer.

Cheers,
Levente

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Lukas Renggli
> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"

Ok, excellent. Just trying to avoid possible issues.

Lukas

--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/

I get a: Error: "/seaside/" not found.

Alexandre

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
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method metaclass disappeared in RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass

François Tanguy
Hello,

in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in  
RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
Is that normal ?

François
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Re: method metaclass disappeared in RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass

Lukas Renggli
I renamed the methods #metaclass and #nonMetaclass, because these
selectors are not polymorphic with what is standard in the Pharo class
hierarchy where #theMetaclass and #theNonMetaclass are used.

Looks like O2-Refactory and other external users needs to be updated.

I changed all senders OB-Refactory.

Lukas

2009/10/30 François Tanguy <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
> Is that normal ?
>
> François
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: method metaclass disappeared in RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass

François Tanguy
Yes, like the code generator of Fame for instance.

François

Le Oct 30, 2009 à 4:17 PM, Lukas Renggli a écrit :

> I renamed the methods #metaclass and #nonMetaclass, because these
> selectors are not polymorphic with what is standard in the Pharo class
> hierarchy where #theMetaclass and #theNonMetaclass are used.
>
> Looks like O2-Refactory and other external users needs to be updated.
>
> I changed all senders OB-Refactory.
>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/10/30 François Tanguy <[hidden email]>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
>> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
>> Is that normal ?
>>
>> François
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

cedreek
In reply to this post by Alexandre Bergel
http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/seaside/ax

or

http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/browse

2009/10/30 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>
> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/

I get a: Error: "/seaside/" not found.

Alexandre

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Levente Uzonyi-2
In reply to this post by Alexandre Bergel
Hi!

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

>> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/
>
> I get a: Error: "/seaside/" not found.
>

Try this: http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/seaside/ax
or this: http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/seaside/browse :)

Cheers,
Levente

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by cedreek
Works better.

Thanks,
Alexandre


On 30 Oct 2009, at 13:10, Cédrick Béler wrote:

> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/seaside/ax
>
> or
>
> http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/browse
>
> 2009/10/30 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>
> > http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/
>
> I get a: Error: "/seaside/" not found.
>
> Alexandre
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
>
> --
> Cédrick
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
Levente

what I would really love :)
is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on  
your experience.
I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the core  
would be enhanced and we
could clarified the license.

Stef

On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>   (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework 
> )
>   just like the Announcements package in Pharo
> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html 
> ).
> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and  
> integrated
> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix  
> came
> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted  
> the
> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was  
> available
> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>
> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per  
> announcer.
>
> Cheers,
> Levente
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: method metaclass disappeared in RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
lukas could you deprecate the methods so that users get the time to  
update.

Stef

On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> I renamed the methods #metaclass and #nonMetaclass, because these
> selectors are not polymorphic with what is standard in the Pharo class
> hierarchy where #theMetaclass and #theNonMetaclass are used.
>
> Looks like O2-Refactory and other external users needs to be updated.
>
> I changed all senders OB-Refactory.
>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/10/30 François Tanguy <[hidden email]>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> in pharo1.0-10492-rc1dev09.11.1, the method metaclass in
>> RBAbstractClass and RBMetaclass is not there...
>> Is that normal ?
>>
>> François
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and  
minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
add some tests and code.

Stef
On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Levente
>
> what I would really love :)
> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
> your experience.
> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the core
> would be enhanced and we
> could clarified the license.
>
> Stef
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>> )
>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>> ).
>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>> integrated
>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>> came
>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>> the
>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>> available
>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>
>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>> announcer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Levente
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Igor Stasenko
AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided previously,
it should be in Pharo core?

2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
> add some tests and code.
>
> Stef
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Levente
>>
>> what I would really love :)
>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>> your experience.
>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the core
>> would be enhanced and we
>> could clarified the license.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>> )
>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>> ).
>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>> integrated
>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>> came
>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found announcements
>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>> the
>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>> available
>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>
>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower code
>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions and
>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>> announcer.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Levente
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Stéphane Ducasse
This could be a possibility now I think that this is nice that people  
get a chance to check it and discuss.

Stef

On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided  
> previously,
> it should be in Pharo core?
>
> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>> add some tests and code.
>>
>> Stef
>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> Levente
>>>
>>> what I would really love :)
>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>>> your experience.
>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the  
>>> core
>>> would be enhanced and we
>>> could clarified the license.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>> )
>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>> ).
>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>> integrated
>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>>> came
>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found  
>>>> announcements
>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>>> the
>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>> available
>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>
>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower  
>>>> code
>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions  
>>>> and
>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>> announcer.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Levente
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Igor Stasenko
2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> This could be a possibility now I think that this is nice that people
> get a chance to check it and discuss.
>

yes, please decide. :) Because from that decision, we could then plan
a new system-change annoucements layer
+ package system.
In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
useful stuff on top of it.


> Stef
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
>> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided
>> previously,
>> it should be in Pharo core?
>>
>> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>>> add some tests and code.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>
>>>> Levente
>>>>
>>>> what I would really love :)
>>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based on
>>>> your experience.
>>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the
>>>> core
>>>> would be enhanced and we
>>>> could clarified the license.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>>> )
>>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>>> ).
>>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>>> integrated
>>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX prefix
>>>>> came
>>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found
>>>>> announcements
>>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we extracted
>>>>> the
>>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>>> available
>>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower
>>>>> code
>>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions
>>>>> and
>>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>>> announcer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Levente
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Stéphane Ducasse
I think that Axa needs a good cleaning brush. So let us see what we  
can get.

Stef
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> This could be a possibility now I think that this is nice that people
>> get a chance to check it and discuss.
>>
>
> yes, please decide. :) Because from that decision, we could then plan
> a new system-change annoucements layer
> + package system.
> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
> useful stuff on top of it.
>
>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> AXAnnouncements is pretty small and accompanied with tests.
>>> So why not integrate it + removing 'AX' prefix because, as decided
>>> previously,
>>> it should be in Pharo core?
>>>
>>> 2009/10/31 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> what would be good is to have a small discussion on the key and
>>>> minimal features that could be added to Announcements,
>>>> add some tests and code.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Levente
>>>>>
>>>>> what I would really love :)
>>>>> is if you could provide some extensions to the new version based  
>>>>> on
>>>>> your experience.
>>>>> I think that Announcements are a bit limited right now. Then the
>>>>> core
>>>>> would be enhanced and we
>>>>> could clarified the license.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 1:25 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to make things clear, AXAnnouncements
>>>>>> - is not "a port of the original announcement implementation"
>>>>>> - is (more or less) based on Vassili Bykov's blog
>>>>>>  (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?searchCategory=Announcements%20Framework
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>  just like the Announcements package in Pharo
>>>>>> - is released under the MIT license (http://www.squeaksource.com/AXAnnouncements.html
>>>>>> ).
>>>>>> We implemented the framework as the blog entries came out and
>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>> it into our rudimentary ajax framework (that's where the AX  
>>>>>> prefix
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> from). Later we abandoned the ajax framework but found
>>>>>> announcements
>>>>>> really useful (especially with seaside components), so we  
>>>>>> extracted
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> code and moved it to squeaksource. Our ajax framework demo was
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> at http://axdemo.seasidehosting.st/.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a quick comparison: AXAnnouncements is bloated and has lower
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> quality than Announcements, but it implements more features, like
>>>>>> suspension and interception of announcements, weak subscriptions
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> allows different base class for the announcements hierarchy per
>>>>>> announcer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Levente
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- 
>>>>> project
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Lukas Renggli
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
> useful stuff on top of it.

I have used these announcements in many large projects and I never
needed to add anything. In fact, I would even vote to remove
AnnouncementSet as I never used it or saw it used anywhere. Initially,
I found it cool because the same trick is applied in the Exception
hierarchy. Major projects like OmniBrowser (and to some extent also
Seaside) use an even smaller subset of the functionality provided in
the core package.

The only thing that is maybe missing are weak announcements. I guess
that could be useful, if Pharo provided a solid implementation of weak
objects.

Lukas

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Igor Stasenko
2009/11/1 Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:

>> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
>> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
>> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
>> useful stuff on top of it.
>
> I have used these announcements in many large projects and I never
> needed to add anything. In fact, I would even vote to remove
> AnnouncementSet as I never used it or saw it used anywhere. Initially,
> I found it cool because the same trick is applied in the Exception
> hierarchy. Major projects like OmniBrowser (and to some extent also
> Seaside) use an even smaller subset of the functionality provided in
> the core package.
>
> The only thing that is maybe missing are weak announcements. I guess
> that could be useful, if Pharo provided a solid implementation of weak
> objects.
>

Announcements is just another implementation of observer pattern.
And given that its quite simple to (re)implement by own, obviously, the question
is, why anyone would want to use Announcements instead of making own?
If Announcements provides more wide functionality in addition to
observer pattern - then yes,
you could say: it is better because in addition you have this and that.
But if it so stripped to bare-bones, then where the benefits to use
exactly Announcements?

> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Lukas Renggli
> But if it so stripped to bare-bones, then where the benefits to use
> exactly Announcements?

I would rather like to hear what this "more wide functionality" is all about?

So far you only argued that big is better. I don't buy that.

This is old, but "Small is the new big" ;-)

A smaller infrastructure also means:

- easier to learn
- less code that rots
- less code to maintain
- less code duplication
- less code to test
- loose coupling
- smaller image

Cheers,
Lukas

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Re: About AXAnnouncements (was: some Announcements related questions)

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
Yes for weak, I agree for set may be some people use that.
Now I would like to hear levente usage of announcement.
And igor having a simple but COMMON infrastructure is important
so we need the core.

Now I would also like to know the cost of always broadcasting. I do not
remember correctly but in vassili'blog there were some points to avoid  
that.
Because in the past, in Smalltalk the dependency where broadcasting to  
all the
dependents and this was inadequate and after they introduce  
on:when:.....
to get only the right listener updated.

Stef

On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>> In current core image, Announcements is quite small (just around 10
>> methods totally) and i doubt it provides enough
>> flexibility which would not require adding & reinventing additional
>> useful stuff on top of it.
>
> I have used these announcements in many large projects and I never
> needed to add anything. In fact, I would even vote to remove
> AnnouncementSet as I never used it or saw it used anywhere. Initially,
> I found it cool because the same trick is applied in the Exception
> hierarchy. Major projects like OmniBrowser (and to some extent also
> Seaside) use an even smaller subset of the functionality provided in
> the core package.
>
> The only thing that is maybe missing are weak announcements. I guess
> that could be useful, if Pharo provided a solid implementation of weak
> objects.
>
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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