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On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: Le 29/10/2011 06:46, Ricardo Moran a écrit :
Yes, some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys (like the ones in Scratch). Cheers,
Richo
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Am 31.10.2011 um 03:09 schrieb Ricardo Moran: > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: > Le 29/10/2011 06:46, Ricardo Moran a écrit : > > I noticed, however, that most of the kids use Etoys merely as some > > sort of enhanced powerpoint but few of them actually see its potential > > for simulations and programming (they use Scratch or TurtleArt for > > that). I know that my sensation after seeing just a couple of students > > doesn't count as valid statistics, and I also know that there have > > been a lot of discussions about this in the list, but I can't help > > thinking something is wrong and I wanted to share it. > > > > The users always surprise you and they gear freely in a direction > different from the one you planed for them :) > Steve Jobs was a master to drive the user where he wanted. > > Teacher have to cope with their reality, which it is difficult for us > after all. > So it may suggest to add more graphical tools useful for presentation. > Your bubble tools are winning pieces for that :) > > Yes, some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys (like the ones in Scratch). We have been discussing this from time to time, and we think that having nice graphics to choose from will not really fit with the idea of children creating their own objects. Seeing graphics that they might not be able to create themselves easily can discourage them from make their own paintings. But what if we create a part on our website where children can upload their paintings so that others can use them? Just a thought. Greetings, Rita > > Cheers, > Richo > > > Hilaire > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev Rita Freudenberg [hidden email] _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Ricardo Moran
On 31.10.2011, at 03:09, Ricardo Moran wrote:
> Some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys (like the ones in Scratch). Why don't they use images they found on the web, or took using a camera? - Bert - _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Rita Freudenberg
On Monday 31 Oct 2011 5:33:28 PM Rita Freudenberg wrote:
> > Yes, some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys > > (like the ones in Scratch). > > We have been discussing this from time to time, and we think that having > nice graphics to choose from will not really fit with the idea of children > creating their own objects. It is not about graphics per se but about the mindset with which learners approach computing. The noise in the environment today is around digicams and graphics editing. It is hard to draw attention to scripting capabilities above this din :-(. It is like the early days when a movie camera was used to shoot only staged plays. It took some time before videographers digested its potential and moved onto outdoors, compositing etc. Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Rita Freudenberg
Hi,
An interesting discussion, and I add my views that parallel some and diverge from others. More ready-to-use objects may result in a constricted view of Etoys capabilities. More math objects will make it seem like it is most appropriate for mathematics but my impression is that mathematicians already have set their curriculum and resist taking what appears to be a lateral digression into programming. Also, most current textbooks include interactive materials that school districts expect will be used. We can't compete. It is easy to drag in digital images and sound files already. It is easy to save projects full of specific objects for any number of routine classroom activities. There is room to add drag and drop information in the Quick Guide for both topics. I would be glad to revise those, just let me know when they are needed. Professional drawings discourage children who can not match that level of skill. . . yet. When I taught music, there was a similar problem using recorded accompaniments and professional singers that came with the textbook. It seemed better for my students to perfect their talents, to really listen to the music they made, rather than hide behind professional musicians and the perfection of recording studio performances. Maybe we should have a link to proposed additions to Supplies and the Object Catalog. I will mention my bias which is for a continuation of non-violence in Etoys. If more objects are to be added to Supplies, please could we avoid bombs, tanks, military craft, missiles, drones, and any other weapons of mass destruction. Surely there is room in the world for one non-violent introduction to programming. Regards, Kathleen ________________________________________ ________________________________________ From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Rita Freudenberg [[hidden email]] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 7:03 AM To: Ricardo Moran Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] About Skeleton Am 31.10.2011 um 03:09 schrieb Ricardo Moran: > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: > Le 29/10/2011 06:46, Ricardo Moran a écrit : > > I noticed, however, that most of the kids use Etoys merely as some > > sort of enhanced powerpoint but few of them actually see its potential > > for simulations and programming (they use Scratch or TurtleArt for > > that). I know that my sensation after seeing just a couple of students > > doesn't count as valid statistics, and I also know that there have > > been a lot of discussions about this in the list, but I can't help > > thinking something is wrong and I wanted to share it. > > > > The users always surprise you and they gear freely in a direction > different from the one you planed for them :) > Steve Jobs was a master to drive the user where he wanted. > > Teacher have to cope with their reality, which it is difficult for us > after all. > So it may suggest to add more graphical tools useful for presentation. > Your bubble tools are winning pieces for that :) > > Yes, some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys (like the ones in Scratch). We have been discussing this from time to time, and we think that having nice graphics to choose from will not really fit with the idea of children creating their own objects. Seeing graphics that they might not be able to create themselves easily can discourage them from make their own paintings. But what if we create a part on our website where children can upload their paintings so that others can use them? Just a thought. Greetings, Rita > > Cheers, > Richo > > > Hilaire > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev Rita Freudenberg [hidden email] _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Harness, Kathleen
<[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi, > An interesting discussion, and I add my views that parallel some and diverge from others. > > More ready-to-use objects may result in a constricted view of Etoys capabilities. More math objects will make it seem like it is most appropriate for mathematics but my impression is that mathematicians already have set their curriculum and resist taking what appears to be a lateral digression into programming. Also, most current textbooks include interactive materials that school districts expect will be used. We can't compete. > > It is easy to drag in digital images and sound files already. It is easy to save projects full of specific objects for any number of routine classroom activities. There is room to add drag and drop information in the Quick Guide for both topics. I would be glad to revise those, just let me know when they are needed. > > Professional drawings discourage children who can not match that level of skill. . . yet. When I taught music, there was a similar problem using recorded accompaniments and professional singers that came with the textbook. It seemed better for my students to perfect their talents, to really listen to the music they made, rather than hide behind professional musicians and the perfection of recording studio performances. > > Maybe we should have a link to proposed additions to Supplies and the Object Catalog. I will mention my bias which is for a continuation of non-violence in Etoys. If more objects are to be added to Supplies, please could we avoid bombs, tanks, military craft, missiles, drones, and any other weapons of mass destruction. Surely there is room in the world for one non-violent introduction to programming. > Regards, > Kathleen One thing I think is "missing" in Etoys is a better way to use a turtles to make art. Turtle drawings now are mostly backgrounds and take some extra hurdles to be used as costumes for players, saved to files etc. A more intuitive way to do this would be nice. Karl > > > ________________________________________ > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Rita Freudenberg [[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 7:03 AM > To: Ricardo Moran > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] About Skeleton > > Am 31.10.2011 um 03:09 schrieb Ricardo Moran: > >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Le 29/10/2011 06:46, Ricardo Moran a écrit : >> > I noticed, however, that most of the kids use Etoys merely as some >> > sort of enhanced powerpoint but few of them actually see its potential >> > for simulations and programming (they use Scratch or TurtleArt for >> > that). I know that my sensation after seeing just a couple of students >> > doesn't count as valid statistics, and I also know that there have >> > been a lot of discussions about this in the list, but I can't help >> > thinking something is wrong and I wanted to share it. >> > >> >> The users always surprise you and they gear freely in a direction >> different from the one you planed for them :) >> Steve Jobs was a master to drive the user where he wanted. >> >> Teacher have to cope with their reality, which it is difficult for us >> after all. >> So it may suggest to add more graphical tools useful for presentation. >> Your bubble tools are winning pieces for that :) >> >> Yes, some kids told me they would want more graphics to choose in Etoys (like the ones in Scratch). > > We have been discussing this from time to time, and we think that having nice graphics to choose from will not really fit with the idea of children creating their own objects. Seeing graphics that they might not be able to create themselves easily can discourage them from make their own paintings. > But what if we create a part on our website where children can upload their paintings so that others can use them? > > Just a thought. > Greetings, > Rita >> >> Cheers, >> Richo >> >> >> Hilaire >> _______________________________________________ >> etoys-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> etoys-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > Rita Freudenberg > [hidden email] > > > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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Harness, Kathleen wrote:
>> It is easy to drag in digital images and sound files already. ... There is room to add drag and drop information in the Quick Guide for both topics. Yes! Cut and paste too. Since Sugar doesn't have drag and drop or cut and paste as far as I know, could the guide point Sugar users to the alternative on their platform please? karl ramberg wrote: > One thing I think is "missing" in Etoys is a better way to use a > turtles to make art. > Turtle drawings now are mostly backgrounds and take some extra hurdles > to be used as costumes for players, > saved to files etc. > A more intuitive way to do this would be nice. What a great idea for a Summer of Code project for 2012 (if one of the regular contributors doesn't get to it before then.) David _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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On 01.11.2011, at 10:48, David Corking wrote:
> Harness, Kathleen wrote: > >>> It is easy to drag in digital images and sound files already. ... There is room to add drag and drop information in the Quick Guide for both topics. > > Yes! Cut and paste too. Since Sugar doesn't have drag and drop or cut > and paste as far as I know, could the guide point Sugar users to the > alternative on their platform please? Sugar has both cut/paste (using ctrl-c and ctrl-v shortcuts) and drag/drop (drag into left edge of frame, switch activity, drag out of frame). - Bert - _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Sugar has both cut/paste (using ctrl-c and ctrl-v shortcuts) and drag/drop (drag into > left edge of frame, switch activity, drag out of frame). Great - thanks for putting me right. _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 12:35:56 AM karl ramberg wrote:
> One thing I think is "missing" in Etoys is a better way to use a > turtles to make art. > Turtle drawings now are mostly backgrounds and take some extra hurdles > to be used as costumes for players, > saved to files etc. > A more intuitive way to do this would be nice. Could you elaborate on these gaps, please? It is possible to convert trails into sketches using 'pen trail graphic' tiles. Recent check-ins also added support for stencils and silhouettes. Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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Hi,
Are the recent check-ins adding support for stencils and silhouettes menu items like the one for playfield pen trail? There is a Quick Guide called Script Tile: Playfield Pen Trails. If it is the same mechanism, should we add info to the existing guide? Kathleen ________________________________________ From: K. K. Subramaniam [[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:00 AM To: [hidden email] Cc: karl ramberg; Harness, Kathleen Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] About Skeleton On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 12:35:56 AM karl ramberg wrote: > One thing I think is "missing" in Etoys is a better way to use a > turtles to make art. > Turtle drawings now are mostly backgrounds and take some extra hurdles > to be used as costumes for players, > saved to files etc. > A more intuitive way to do this would be nice. Could you elaborate on these gaps, please? It is possible to convert trails into sketches using 'pen trail graphic' tiles. Recent check-ins also added support for stencils and silhouettes. Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by K K Subbu
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:00 PM, K. K. Subramaniam <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 12:35:56 AM karl ramberg wrote: >> One thing I think is "missing" in Etoys is a better way to use a >> turtles to make art. >> Turtle drawings now are mostly backgrounds and take some extra hurdles >> to be used as costumes for players, >> saved to files etc. >> A more intuitive way to do this would be nice. > Could you elaborate on these gaps, please? > > It is possible to convert trails into sketches using 'pen trail graphic' > tiles. I had not seen this one. Thanks :-) >Recent check-ins also added support for stencils and silhouettes. > Yes, that one has to be taken care of too ! Karl _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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