About a separate mailing-list about GT
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About a separate mailing-list about GT
 
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Hi doru
Would it be possible to have a separate mailing-list for GT? Stef -------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: About a separate mailing-list about GT
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Hi,
The mails we send here or on the Pharo mailing list about GT are limited to announcements and replies related to issues and questions that people raise. We do this mostly so that we do not create an unnecessary schism and keep a communication channel open, as you asked us to. We will soon create a separate forum for more detailed GT conversations. Cheers, Doru > On Dec 29, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi doru > > Would it be possible to have a separate mailing-list for GT? > > Stef > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.feenk.com "To utilize feedback, you first have to acquire it." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: About a separate mailing-list about GT
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Thanks doru.
We would like to release Moose 70 with the two years of work of Pavel for the metamodel and all the current effort to package Moose. With Pharo80, we are also working on new Moose UI (since Glamour is not maintained and we need something better) so that we can build fast analysis tools. I would like to get some momentum around the new tooling because we need to rebuild all the UI. Stef
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: About a separate mailing-list about GT
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Hi,
Yes, I saw the activity in the GitHub repositories. Unfortunately, the concrete path is not communicated and as a consequence we cannot contribute. We created Releaser and this can be used to reliably release nested projects residing in different repositories. I believe the reason why everything is in on repository in Moose was to limit the different repositories problem. Perhaps that can be revisited now. As for the new UI: what do you have specifically in mind? Cheers, Doru > On Dec 29, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Thanks doru. > We would like to release Moose 70 with the two years of work of Pavel for the metamodel and all the current effort > to package Moose. > With Pharo80, we are also working on new Moose UI (since Glamour is not maintained and we need something better) > so that we can build fast analysis tools. I would like to get some momentum around the new tooling > because we need to rebuild all the UI. > > Stef > > >> Hi, >> >> The mails we send here or on the Pharo mailing list about GT are limited to announcements and replies related to issues and questions that people raise. We do this mostly so that we do not create an unnecessary schism and keep a communication channel open, as you asked us to. >> >> We will soon create a separate forum for more detailed GT conversations. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Dec 29, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi doru >>> >>> Would it be possible to have a separate mailing-list for GT? >>> >>> Stef >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> Stéphane Ducasse >>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr >>> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org >>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>> Assistant: Julie Jonas >>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>> 40, avenue Halley, >>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>> France >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.feenk.com >> >> "To utilize feedback, you first have to acquire it." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.feenk.com "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: About a separate mailing-list about GT
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I can reexplain our plans the number of times it is necessary. May I remind you that Pavel presented his work at ESUG during two years and that you came at Lille in September to discuss with us. Nothing has changed since then. We just communicate less because we are focusing on Pharo70 and preparing Pharo80a.
Moose is not moving enough to deserve this. I do not know what are the limits of releaser to be able to pronounce myself.
Get rid of Glamour (since it is not maintained and we want to be able to debug our tools) and (re)-write a new Moose UI using a new version of Spec. So we are working on Spec2.0 and cleaning Moose. Stef
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: About a separate mailing-list about GT
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Hi,
> On Dec 29, 2018, at 10:28 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> Yes, I saw the activity in the GitHub repositories. Unfortunately, the concrete path is not communicated and as a consequence we cannot contribute. > > So funny from you. I could have said: "we communicate by chat and we have no roadmap” :) but this is not true: In fact you did communicate between yourselves only not on chat but on the whiteboard :). In any case, I was not complaining. I was just stating that we cannot contribute in the current arrangement. > I can reexplain our plans the number of times it is necessary. > > May I remind you that Pavel presented his work at ESUG during two years and that you came at Lille in September to discuss with us. > Nothing has changed since then. We just communicate less because we are focusing on Pharo70 and preparing Pharo80a. Yes, sure. I was waiting for some news about a state that is usable. >> We created Releaser and this can be used to reliably release nested projects residing in different repositories. I believe the reason why everything is in on repository in Moose was to limit the different repositories problem. Perhaps that can be revisited now. > > I do not think so. We pay a too large burden and energy to fake modularity. > Moose is not moving enough to deserve this. There are projects that do evolve separately such as: GtExamples, DeepTraverser, NeoCSV, XMLParser and SmaCC. As it stands now, the versions from Moose are forks of the code maintained by the original authors. For example, in GT we already use GtExamples, DeepTraverser and SmaCC. To play with the new FAMIX and GT, we will have to fork the code from the Moose repo. At the very least, you can still introduce fine grained baselines in the same repository. > I do not know what are the limits of releaser to be able to pronounce myself. Of course. We announced when we met in Lille that we will produce a tool that can address the nested projects problem. We think we have a solid basis now, and it would be worthwhile to investigate it. A key aspect to make this work smoothly is to not rely on Groups, but instead rely on fine grained Baselines. It works for GT, and we have deep nesting and projects spread over many repositories with a mix of projects with fix dependencies and dependencies to latest master version. >> As for the new UI: what do you have specifically in mind? > > Exactly what I told you in September/October. > Get rid of Glamour (since it is not maintained and we want to be able to debug our tools) and (re)-write a new Moose UI using a new version of Spec. > So we are working on Spec2.0 and cleaning Moose. Ok. Good to know. Doru > Stef > >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> On Dec 29, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks doru. >>> We would like to release Moose 70 with the two years of work of Pavel for the metamodel and all the current effort >>> to package Moose. >>> With Pharo80, we are also working on new Moose UI (since Glamour is not maintained and we need something better) >>> so that we can build fast analysis tools. I would like to get some momentum around the new tooling >>> because we need to rebuild all the UI. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> The mails we send here or on the Pharo mailing list about GT are limited to announcements and replies related to issues and questions that people raise. We do this mostly so that we do not create an unnecessary schism and keep a communication channel open, as you asked us to. >>>> >>>> We will soon create a separate forum for more detailed GT conversations. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 29, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi doru >>>>> >>>>> Would it be possible to have a separate mailing-list for GT? >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> Stéphane Ducasse >>>>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr >>>>> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org >>>>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>>>> Assistant: Julie Jonas >>>>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>>>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>>>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>>>> 40, avenue Halley, >>>>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >>>>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>>>> France >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "To utilize feedback, you first have to acquire it." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> Stéphane Ducasse >>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr >>> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org >>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>> Assistant: Julie Jonas >>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>> 40, avenue Halley, >>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>> France >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.feenk.com >> >> "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.feenk.com “Programming is executable philosophy." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev |
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