About not using full Pharo

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About not using full Pharo

Torsten Bergmann
It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
become more painfull the more we strip down core in the future.

But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
top of it because there are also people who just require
a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.  

There is only one solution to this:
 - repackage and introduce clean dependencies between
   the packages

If this is done it is much easier
 - to build a dev on top of core by loading
 - to build a core by stripping a dev
 - to build a kernel from core
 - to have a custom image with the packages you need

And once we have done it we can extend our toolset not
only to build and test packages but also to check validness
and quality.

My 0.02€
T.
--
NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone

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Re: About not using full Pharo

Douglas Brebner
On 20/06/2011 15:09, Torsten Bergmann wrote:

> It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
> become more painfull the more we strip down core in the future.
>
> But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
> top of it because there are also people who just require
> a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
> who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.
>
> There is only one solution to this:
>   - repackage and introduce clean dependencies between
>     the packages
>

Or use something like Craigs Spoon to use the tools in one image to
build a second customised image.


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Re: About not using full Pharo

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
I will check if I can start to use Metacello for the update but I will need time for that and I do not have time right now.


Stef

On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote:

> It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
> become more painfull the more we strip down core in the future.
>
> But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
> top of it because there are also people who just require
> a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
> who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.  
>
> There is only one solution to this:
> - repackage and introduce clean dependencies between
>   the packages
>
> If this is done it is much easier
> - to build a dev on top of core by loading
> - to build a core by stripping a dev
> - to build a kernel from core
> - to have a custom image with the packages you need
>
> And once we have done it we can extend our toolset not
> only to build and test packages but also to check validness
> and quality.
>
> My 0.02€
> T.
> --
> NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
> Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
>


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Re: About not using full Pharo

Dale Henrichs
Stef,

I don't have the time myself to take on the task of configuring the pharo core, but I _am_ willing to spend time on specific problems (they don't have to be hard ones either:) ... In other words, if you don't know how to do something in Metacello or the configuration isn't doing what you want, don't spend too much time debugging/figuring things out (unless you are enjoying it:) just shoot the problem to me and I'll take a crack at resolving the immediate problem ...

The MetacelloBrowser toolset hasn't gotten to the point where they'd be useful ... it will be several weeks (at a minimum) before something useful along those lines appears...

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]>
| To: [hidden email]
| Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:20:57 AM
| Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About not using full Pharo
|
| I will check if I can start to use Metacello for the update but I
| will need time for that and I do not have time right now.
|
|
| Stef
|
| On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
|
| > It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
| > become more painfull the more we strip down core in the future.
| >
| > But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
| > top of it because there are also people who just require
| > a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
| > who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.
| >
| > There is only one solution to this:
| > - repackage and introduce clean dependencies between
| >   the packages
| >
| > If this is done it is much easier
| > - to build a dev on top of core by loading
| > - to build a core by stripping a dev
| > - to build a kernel from core
| > - to have a custom image with the packages you need
| >
| > And once we have done it we can extend our toolset not
| > only to build and test packages but also to check validness
| > and quality.
| >
| > My 0.02€
| > T.
| > --
| > NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
| > Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
| >
|
|
|

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Re: About not using full Pharo

Stéphane Ducasse
Thanks for the help.

I will do it incrementally. This is just that I should shake our infrastrcuture but since this is for the better :)


> Stef,
>
> I don't have the time myself to take on the task of configuring the pharo core, but I _am_ willing to spend time on specific problems (they don't have to be hard ones either:) ... In other words, if you don't know how to do something in Metacello or the configuration isn't doing what you want, don't spend too much time debugging/figuring things out (unless you are enjoying it:) just shoot the problem to me and I'll take a crack at resolving the immediate problem ...
>
> The MetacelloBrowser toolset hasn't gotten to the point where they'd be useful ... it will be several weeks (at a minimum) before something useful along those lines appears...
>
> Dale
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]>
> | To: [hidden email]
> | Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:20:57 AM
> | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About not using full Pharo
> |
> | I will check if I can start to use Metacello for the update but I
> | will need time for that and I do not have time right now.
> |
> |
> | Stef
> |
> | On Jun 20, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
> |
> | > It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
> | > become more painfull the more we strip down core in the future.
> | >
> | > But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
> | > top of it because there are also people who just require
> | > a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
> | > who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.
> | >
> | > There is only one solution to this:
> | > - repackage and introduce clean dependencies between
> | >   the packages
> | >
> | > If this is done it is much easier
> | > - to build a dev on top of core by loading
> | > - to build a core by stripping a dev
> | > - to build a kernel from core
> | > - to have a custom image with the packages you need
> | >
> | > And once we have done it we can extend our toolset not
> | > only to build and test packages but also to check validness
> | > and quality.
> | >
> | > My 0.02€
> | > T.
> | > --
> | > NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
> | > Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
> | >
> |
> |
> |
>


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Re: About not using full Pharo

ccrraaiigg
In reply to this post by Douglas Brebner

Hi--

> > It's hard to work on core without good tools and this will
> > become more painful the more we strip down core in the future.
> >
> > But we all agreed that we need a stable core to build on
> > top of it because there are also people who just require
> > a core Smalltalk and not a full developer IDE or people
> > who have their own IDE setup or want to do experiments.
>
> ...use something like Craig's Spoon to use the tools in one image to
> build a second customised image.

     Yes, with remote browsers and debuggers you can have a pleasant
development experience that is independent of the size of the kernel.
The Spoon kernel has no need of the compiler, system dictionary, and all
graphics support, for example.


-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
+31   6 2757 7177
+ 1 415  287 3547