About simple morphic
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Hi guys
the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 Here is the original text: > I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. > > The contents of the change sets are as follows: > - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. > - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. > - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). > - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. > > After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. > > As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. > > I look forward for your comments! Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic - Preference are still used - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. But all that will require some work. Tell us what you think. |
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I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the
web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the past with Squeak). I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I think we need). Just my opinion. Germán. 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: > Hi guys > > the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. > > Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 > > Here is the original text: > >> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >> >> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >> >> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >> >> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >> >> I look forward for your comments! > > > Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. > SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it > - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic > - Preference are still used > - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. > > Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 > This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. > But all that will require some work. > > Tell us what you think. > |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Thanks german
This is what I think too but I like that other people express what they think :) So thanks. Stef On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Germán Arduino wrote: > I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the > web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings > (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the > past with Squeak). > > I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't > generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound > correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I > think we need). > > Just my opinion. > Germán. > > > 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >> Hi guys >> >> the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. >> >> Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 >> >> Here is the original text: >> >>> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >>> >>> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >>> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >>> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >>> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >>> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >>> >>> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >>> >>> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >>> >>> I look forward for your comments! >> >> >> Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. >> SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it >> - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic >> - Preference are still used >> - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. >> >> Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 >> This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. >> But all that will require some work. >> >> Tell us what you think. >> > |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
> A great job is done in aggregating energy to make Pharo a sexy Smalltalk
> development plateform. > Was SimpleMorphic sponsoried under this perspective? not really. ESUG wanted to push Morphic 30 and juan did a new proposal (one that was more reasonable than the one in 2008). Now since having a cleaner morphic is important we found it a good fallback (making sure that the work done in cuis could be loaded in other systems so that they can build on it or get influenced). Now we have to have a look and decide what to do. > And more importantly what is the outcome for a Desktop application developer like me? For now not something directly usable if you want to use polymorph for example. as I said this is our turn to make some use of it. > > Hilaire > > Le 06/11/2010 19:10, Stéphane Ducasse a écrit : >> Thanks german >> This is what I think too but I like that other people express what they think :) >> So thanks. >> >> Stef >> >> On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Germán Arduino wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the >>> web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings >>> (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the >>> past with Squeak). >>> >>> I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't >>> generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound >>> correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I >>> think we need). >>> >>> Just my opinion. >>> Germán. >>> >>> >>> 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>>> Hi guys >>>> >>>> the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. >>>> >>>> Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 >>>> >>>> Here is the original text: >>>> >>>>> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >>>>> >>>>> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >>>>> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >>>>> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >>>>> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >>>>> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >>>>> >>>>> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >>>>> >>>>> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >>>>> >>>>> I look forward for your comments! >>>> >>>> >>>> Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. >>>> SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it >>>> - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic >>>> - Preference are still used >>>> - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. >>>> >>>> Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 >>>> This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. >>>> But all that will require some work. >>>> >>>> Tell us what you think. >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Geo, to discover geometry on Linux, Windows, MAC and XO > http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeo > > |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Hi,
I would be interested in testing these changes, but could we get a summary, or at least the intention behind these changes? What does Simple mean in this context? Cheers, Doru On 6 Nov 2010, at 19:10, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > Thanks german > This is what I think too but I like that other people express what they think :) > So thanks. > > Stef > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Germán Arduino wrote: > >> I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the >> web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings >> (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the >> past with Squeak). >> >> I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't >> generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound >> correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I >> think we need). >> >> Just my opinion. >> Germán. >> >> >> 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>> Hi guys >>> >>> the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. >>> >>> Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 >>> >>> Here is the original text: >>> >>>> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >>>> >>>> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >>>> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >>>> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >>>> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >>>> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >>>> >>>> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >>>> >>>> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >>>> >>>> I look forward for your comments! >>> >>> >>> Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. >>> SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it >>> - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic >>> - Preference are still used >>> - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. >>> >>> Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 >>> This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. >>> But all that will require some work. >>> >>> Tell us what you think. >>> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Some battles are better lost than fought." |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > I would be interested in testing these changes, but could we get a summary, or at least the intention behind these changes? What does Simple mean in this context? less dust in morphic. This is basically the work that juan did in CUIS now I do not have a detailled list of the changes. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 6 Nov 2010, at 19:10, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > >> Thanks german >> This is what I think too but I like that other people express what they think :) >> So thanks. >> >> Stef >> >> On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Germán Arduino wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the >>> web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings >>> (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the >>> past with Squeak). >>> >>> I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't >>> generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound >>> correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I >>> think we need). >>> >>> Just my opinion. >>> Germán. >>> >>> >>> 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>>> Hi guys >>>> >>>> the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. >>>> >>>> Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 >>>> >>>> Here is the original text: >>>> >>>>> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >>>>> >>>>> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >>>>> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >>>>> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >>>>> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >>>>> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >>>>> >>>>> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >>>>> >>>>> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >>>>> >>>>> I look forward for your comments! >>>> >>>> >>>> Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. >>>> SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it >>>> - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic >>>> - Preference are still used >>>> - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. >>>> >>>> Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 >>>> This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. >>>> But all that will require some work. >>>> >>>> Tell us what you think. >>>> >>> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Some battles are better lost than fought." > > > > |
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Hi,
I was more hoping from a reply from Juan or someone that knows the details actually :). Cheers, Doru On 6 Nov 2010, at 20:00, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I would be interested in testing these changes, but could we get a summary, or at least the intention behind these changes? What does Simple mean in this context? > > less dust in morphic. > This is basically the work that juan did in CUIS now I do not have a detailled list of the changes. > >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On 6 Nov 2010, at 19:10, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Thanks german >>> This is what I think too but I like that other people express what they think :) >>> So thanks. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Germán Arduino wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not sure if my opinion can have some value because I'm more on the >>>> web arena than in en desktop, but I've on my plans make somethings >>>> (when time permit) using Morphic (Most rewriting things I did in the >>>> past with Squeak). >>>> >>>> I think that if SimpleMorphic is loadable/unloadable and don't >>>> generates bad effects in the Pharo environment, the proposal sound >>>> correct and is a good way to have a Morphic simplification (A thing I >>>> think we need). >>>> >>>> Just my opinion. >>>> Germán. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2010/11/6 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>: >>>>> Hi guys >>>>> >>>>> the mail may be a bit long sorry. ESUG was supporting Morphic 3 (a new proposal) of Juan. Now it occurred that Juan realized that he will not be able to deliver what he wanted. So After discussion one idea was to get simpleMorphic (not lighMorphic) a simpler version of Morphic done by juan for Squeak and Pharo. We believe that this is good because Juan could deliver something and we could support him. >>>>> >>>>> Juan sent us the code and I published it at http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3210 >>>>> >>>>> Here is the original text: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm really happy to tell you: SimpleMorphic for Pharo is working! The attached zip file contains a few numbered change sets, to be installed in Pharo in order. >>>>>> >>>>>> The contents of the change sets are as follows: >>>>>> - SMx01-PharoEnhAndPreliminaries-jmv.3.cs and SMx02-PharoEnhAndPreliminariesCoda.1.cs contain some refactoring needed to make it possible to add another GUI to Pharo. Nothing here is specific to SimpleMorphic, and I recommend integrating them into Pharo. >>>>>> - SMx03-ExtensionMethodsPart1.3.cs contains a few useful methods, not specific to SimpleMorphic, but optional anyway. You might integrate this into Pharo or consider it part of SimpleMorphic. >>>>>> - SMx04-SimpleMorphic.11.cs This change set is the big one. It includes all the new SimpleMorphic classes. It doesn't include any method for existing classes (to make review easier). >>>>>> - SMx05-ExtensionMethodsPart2.7.cs This change set includes the SimpleMorphic specific methods I added to existing classes. >>>>>> >>>>>> After loading them, you can evaluate 'SimpleMorphicUIManager start' to enter SimpleMorphic and 'SimpleMorphicUIManager stop' to return to regular Morphic. >>>>>> >>>>>> As SimpleMorphic is much simpler and easier to understand that regular Morphic, my biggest hope is that the Pharo community will adopt it, study it in detail, and be able to adapt it to Pharo's needs all way down. No need to walk away from overwhelming complexity anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> I look forward for your comments! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now after discussion with Juan: we plan to integrate SM01, 02, and 03 to be able to load SM04. >>>>> SM04 is not in a shape were we can simply migrate on it >>>>> - Polymorph first polymorph is tight with the old Morphic >>>>> - Preference are still used >>>>> - FillInTheBlank, PopUp.... are used. >>>>> >>>>> Now I suggest that we integrate 01.02.03 and package the rest to be loaded in 1.2 >>>>> This way we can either update SimpleMorphic to get more pharoed or we could use it to study and fix morphic. >>>>> But all that will require some work. >>>>> >>>>> Tell us what you think. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Some battles are better lost than fought." >> >> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one." |
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