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About tweets

ducasse
Hi guys

I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
        https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491

I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!

I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
on a tweet that Pharo supports.

I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
We can provide a list and people what they want.
I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.

Stef

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Re: About tweets

EstebanLM
Yes, I closed that issue.

This is not going to happen, sorry :)

Esteban

> On 5 Sep 2019, at 08:03, ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi guys
>
> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>
> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>
> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>
> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
> We can provide a list and people what they want.
> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>
> Stef


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Re: About tweets

NorbertHartl
Ok, there seems to be some agreeable sense. Dealing with accounts of people tends to collect opinions and things not related to pharo. We are not interested in these.
There are hashtags and mentions for things related to a topic. But a few (!) want to have more control. So using the @pharoproject account should be ok because we can like things to be includef from that account. Well at least the ones that have access to.

Is this a proper summary?

Norbert

> Am 05.09.2019 um 08:48 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
>
> Yes, I closed that issue.
>
> This is not going to happen, sorry :)
>
> Esteban
>
>> On 5 Sep 2019, at 08:03, ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys
>>
>> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
>>    https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>>
>> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
>> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>>
>> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
>> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>>
>> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
>> We can provide a list and people what they want.
>> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>>
>> Stef
>
>


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Re: About tweets

Torsten Bergmann
In reply to this post by ducasse
Hi Stef,

I understand - but before we focus the discussion too much on the mentioned #abortionismurder let's bring #4491 into perspective:

 1. Important: I guess we all agree that we would like to tweet and inform as much on technical topics about Smalltalk in general and
    Pharo in particular and not correlate our activities to single peoples personal habits, politics, religion or beliefs.

 2. The aggregator that I suggested in the issue (https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt) is related to the website world.st - which is
    a really useful technical resource on Smalltalk, Pharo and ESUG infos already throughout the years:

     - The forum page http://forum.world.st is summarizing various ST Mailinglists including ESUG list
     - https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt aggregates most of the Pharo and Smalltalker Tweets in existence

 3. You are referring in this thread here to the following tweet: https://twitter.com/AmberSmalltalk/status/1169239145530761217
    which is associating @esugsmalltalk @SergeStinckwich @stephaneducasse #smalltalk for whatever reason with the hash tag #abortionismurder

    I understand your reaction and post - but this was done outside our boundaries by twitter user "AmberSmalltalk" - also not by the aggregator
    itself. And yes - this "AmberSmalltalk" owner seems to mix sometimes personal beliefs into technical infos. I share your doubts and dislike
    this as well.

    It's a problem that existed before and is a problem of tweeting and social media in general. Something that is IMHO independent from described
    issue #4491 - and you and Serge definitely need to sort out this #abortionismurder thing with the owner of this specific account.

 4. The issue #4491 mentions that currently the Pharo community page (http://www.pharo.org/community)

    for Twitter ONLY PROMOTES
        a) the offical tweet account @pharoproject
        b) your personal @stephaneducasse account
    as the ones to follow.

    But we have many more interesting community members tweeting on Pharo as you see on the list in the referred issue. So we should either
    extend the community page with either more personal accounts, just use the offical one or use an external or own aggregator
    including hashtags like #pharo, #pharoproject, ...


 5. As you might have noticed I also opened a second issue #4490 (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4490) as for the blogs mentioned
    on the community page we have something similar:

    For Blogs WE ONLY PROMOTE on that page:
        a) the official pharo weekly
        b) my personal astares blog
        c) the personal blog of clement

    But my blog is not special either - so an aggregator of the various Smalltalks blogs (as the one suggested from planet smalltalk)
    made initially sense to me as it would include more blogs of members of the community and we would not have to adopt the community page all
    the time a new blog appears.

    There are nice Pharo blogs out there like https://www.samadhiweb.com/blog, http://humane-assessment.com/blog and many other.

    Same applies here: either we just include the offical blog that we control, a list of more blogs of the various members or an aggregator

 6. Yes - the community is unable to control what people write on Twitter, Blogs or other social media. Even our mailinglist "pharo-users_lists"
    is not free from personal habits as yesterdays disussion about "guns" showed.
    (http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2019-September/044168.html)

    And maybe linking to these aggregators or promoting them is not a good idea. If we take the discussion (over)serious we should then
    really only link to official twitter account and official pharo blog that the community can control.

    In such a case we need to remove my blog and your personal twitter account from the community page as you sometimes tweet about
    politics on your personal account too and I can potentially write on other non-technical topics on my blog as well (which I do not plan).


Basically we have four options:
  a) we only link to the official twitter account (https://twitter.com/pharoproject) and blog (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/)
  b) extend the list with personal twitter accounts as mentioned in issue #4491 and blogs like mentioned in #4490
  c) Link and rely on external aggregators
  d) Setup an own aggregator on sources we trust

Maybe as a valid solution an official "disclaimer" could help - that opinions shared on these PROMOTED sources are not controlled by
us and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Pharo community

And yes - the board should discuss, check and decide what to put or link to from the community page.

Thanks
T.

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. September 2019 um 08:03 Uhr
> Von: "ducasse" <[hidden email]>
> An: "Pharo Development List" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "The Pharo Project" <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] About tweets
>
> Hi guys
>
> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>
> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>
> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>
> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
> We can provide a list and people what they want.
> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>
> Stef
>
>

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Re: About tweets

ducasse
We are in sync. So I updated the web site to list the main pharo project
and I put a list of other accounts with a disclaimer.

I can do the same with the blog posts.

Stef

> On 5 Sep 2019, at 10:54, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Stef,
>
> I understand - but before we focus the discussion too much on the mentioned #abortionismurder let's bring #4491 into perspective:
>
> 1. Important: I guess we all agree that we would like to tweet and inform as much on technical topics about Smalltalk in general and
>    Pharo in particular and not correlate our activities to single peoples personal habits, politics, religion or beliefs.
>
> 2. The aggregator that I suggested in the issue (https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt) is related to the website world.st - which is
>    a really useful technical resource on Smalltalk, Pharo and ESUG infos already throughout the years:
>
>     - The forum page http://forum.world.st is summarizing various ST Mailinglists including ESUG list
>     - https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt aggregates most of the Pharo and Smalltalker Tweets in existence
>
> 3. You are referring in this thread here to the following tweet: https://twitter.com/AmberSmalltalk/status/1169239145530761217
>    which is associating @esugsmalltalk @SergeStinckwich @stephaneducasse #smalltalk for whatever reason with the hash tag #abortionismurder
>
>    I understand your reaction and post - but this was done outside our boundaries by twitter user "AmberSmalltalk" - also not by the aggregator
>    itself. And yes - this "AmberSmalltalk" owner seems to mix sometimes personal beliefs into technical infos. I share your doubts and dislike
>    this as well.
>
>    It's a problem that existed before and is a problem of tweeting and social media in general. Something that is IMHO independent from described
>    issue #4491 - and you and Serge definitely need to sort out this #abortionismurder thing with the owner of this specific account.
>
> 4. The issue #4491 mentions that currently the Pharo community page (http://www.pharo.org/community)
>
>    for Twitter ONLY PROMOTES
>        a) the offical tweet account @pharoproject
>        b) your personal @stephaneducasse account
>    as the ones to follow.
>
>    But we have many more interesting community members tweeting on Pharo as you see on the list in the referred issue. So we should either
>    extend the community page with either more personal accounts, just use the offical one or use an external or own aggregator
>    including hashtags like #pharo, #pharoproject, ...
>
>
> 5. As you might have noticed I also opened a second issue #4490 (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4490) as for the blogs mentioned
>    on the community page we have something similar:
>
>    For Blogs WE ONLY PROMOTE on that page:
>        a) the official pharo weekly
>        b) my personal astares blog
>        c) the personal blog of clement
>
>    But my blog is not special either - so an aggregator of the various Smalltalks blogs (as the one suggested from planet smalltalk)
>    made initially sense to me as it would include more blogs of members of the community and we would not have to adopt the community page all
>    the time a new blog appears.
>
>    There are nice Pharo blogs out there like https://www.samadhiweb.com/blog, http://humane-assessment.com/blog and many other.
>
>    Same applies here: either we just include the offical blog that we control, a list of more blogs of the various members or an aggregator
>
> 6. Yes - the community is unable to control what people write on Twitter, Blogs or other social media. Even our mailinglist "pharo-users_lists"
>    is not free from personal habits as yesterdays disussion about "guns" showed.
>    (http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2019-September/044168.html)
>
>    And maybe linking to these aggregators or promoting them is not a good idea. If we take the discussion (over)serious we should then
>    really only link to official twitter account and official pharo blog that the community can control.
>
>    In such a case we need to remove my blog and your personal twitter account from the community page as you sometimes tweet about
>    politics on your personal account too and I can potentially write on other non-technical topics on my blog as well (which I do not plan).
>
>
> Basically we have four options:
>  a) we only link to the official twitter account (https://twitter.com/pharoproject) and blog (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/)
>  b) extend the list with personal twitter accounts as mentioned in issue #4491 and blogs like mentioned in #4490
>  c) Link and rely on external aggregators
>  d) Setup an own aggregator on sources we trust
>
> Maybe as a valid solution an official "disclaimer" could help - that opinions shared on these PROMOTED sources are not controlled by
> us and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Pharo community
>
> And yes - the board should discuss, check and decide what to put or link to from the community page.
>
> Thanks
> T.
>
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. September 2019 um 08:03 Uhr
>> Von: "ducasse" <[hidden email]>
>> An: "Pharo Development List" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "The Pharo Project" <[hidden email]>
>> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] About tweets
>>
>> Hi guys
>>
>> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>>
>> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
>> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>>
>> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
>> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>>
>> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
>> We can provide a list and people what they want.
>> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>



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Re: About tweets

NorbertHartl
So now I should complain why my twitter account is not in this list? ;)

All pharoers are equal ….

Norbert

> Am 05.09.2019 um 12:25 schrieb ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>
> We are in sync. So I updated the web site to list the main pharo project
> and I put a list of other accounts with a disclaimer.
>
> I can do the same with the blog posts.
>
> Stef
>
>> On 5 Sep 2019, at 10:54, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stef,
>>
>> I understand - but before we focus the discussion too much on the mentioned #abortionismurder let's bring #4491 into perspective:
>>
>> 1. Important: I guess we all agree that we would like to tweet and inform as much on technical topics about Smalltalk in general and
>>   Pharo in particular and not correlate our activities to single peoples personal habits, politics, religion or beliefs.
>>
>> 2. The aggregator that I suggested in the issue (https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt) is related to the website world.st - which is
>>   a really useful technical resource on Smalltalk, Pharo and ESUG infos already throughout the years:
>>
>>    - The forum page http://forum.world.st is summarizing various ST Mailinglists including ESUG list
>>    - https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt aggregates most of the Pharo and Smalltalker Tweets in existence
>>
>> 3. You are referring in this thread here to the following tweet: https://twitter.com/AmberSmalltalk/status/1169239145530761217
>>   which is associating @esugsmalltalk @SergeStinckwich @stephaneducasse #smalltalk for whatever reason with the hash tag #abortionismurder
>>
>>   I understand your reaction and post - but this was done outside our boundaries by twitter user "AmberSmalltalk" - also not by the aggregator
>>   itself. And yes - this "AmberSmalltalk" owner seems to mix sometimes personal beliefs into technical infos. I share your doubts and dislike
>>   this as well.
>>
>>   It's a problem that existed before and is a problem of tweeting and social media in general. Something that is IMHO independent from described
>>   issue #4491 - and you and Serge definitely need to sort out this #abortionismurder thing with the owner of this specific account.
>>
>> 4. The issue #4491 mentions that currently the Pharo community page (http://www.pharo.org/community)
>>
>>   for Twitter ONLY PROMOTES
>>       a) the offical tweet account @pharoproject
>>       b) your personal @stephaneducasse account
>>   as the ones to follow.
>>
>>   But we have many more interesting community members tweeting on Pharo as you see on the list in the referred issue. So we should either
>>   extend the community page with either more personal accounts, just use the offical one or use an external or own aggregator
>>   including hashtags like #pharo, #pharoproject, ...
>>
>>
>> 5. As you might have noticed I also opened a second issue #4490 (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4490) as for the blogs mentioned
>>   on the community page we have something similar:
>>
>>   For Blogs WE ONLY PROMOTE on that page:
>>       a) the official pharo weekly
>>       b) my personal astares blog
>>       c) the personal blog of clement
>>
>>   But my blog is not special either - so an aggregator of the various Smalltalks blogs (as the one suggested from planet smalltalk)
>>   made initially sense to me as it would include more blogs of members of the community and we would not have to adopt the community page all
>>   the time a new blog appears.
>>
>>   There are nice Pharo blogs out there like https://www.samadhiweb.com/blog, http://humane-assessment.com/blog and many other.
>>
>>   Same applies here: either we just include the offical blog that we control, a list of more blogs of the various members or an aggregator
>>
>> 6. Yes - the community is unable to control what people write on Twitter, Blogs or other social media. Even our mailinglist "pharo-users_lists"
>>   is not free from personal habits as yesterdays disussion about "guns" showed.
>>   (http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2019-September/044168.html)
>>
>>   And maybe linking to these aggregators or promoting them is not a good idea. If we take the discussion (over)serious we should then
>>   really only link to official twitter account and official pharo blog that the community can control.
>>
>>   In such a case we need to remove my blog and your personal twitter account from the community page as you sometimes tweet about
>>   politics on your personal account too and I can potentially write on other non-technical topics on my blog as well (which I do not plan).
>>
>>
>> Basically we have four options:
>> a) we only link to the official twitter account (https://twitter.com/pharoproject) and blog (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/)
>> b) extend the list with personal twitter accounts as mentioned in issue #4491 and blogs like mentioned in #4490
>> c) Link and rely on external aggregators
>> d) Setup an own aggregator on sources we trust
>>
>> Maybe as a valid solution an official "disclaimer" could help - that opinions shared on these PROMOTED sources are not controlled by
>> us and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Pharo community
>>
>> And yes - the board should discuss, check and decide what to put or link to from the community page.
>>
>> Thanks
>> T.
>>
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. September 2019 um 08:03 Uhr
>>> Von: "ducasse" <[hidden email]>
>>> An: "Pharo Development List" <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: "The Pharo Project" <[hidden email]>
>>> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] About tweets
>>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>>>
>>> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
>>> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>>>
>>> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
>>> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>>>
>>> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
>>> We can provide a list and people what they want.
>>> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


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Re: About tweets

ducasse
Indeed so we removed everything.
A clear win.

Stef

> So now I should complain why my twitter account is not in this list? ;)
>
> All pharoers are equal ….
>
> Norbert
>
>> Am 05.09.2019 um 12:25 schrieb ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> We are in sync. So I updated the web site to list the main pharo project
>> and I put a list of other accounts with a disclaimer.
>>
>> I can do the same with the blog posts.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>> On 5 Sep 2019, at 10:54, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Stef,
>>>
>>> I understand - but before we focus the discussion too much on the mentioned #abortionismurder let's bring #4491 into perspective:
>>>
>>> 1. Important: I guess we all agree that we would like to tweet and inform as much on technical topics about Smalltalk in general and
>>>  Pharo in particular and not correlate our activities to single peoples personal habits, politics, religion or beliefs.
>>>
>>> 2. The aggregator that I suggested in the issue (https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt) is related to the website world.st - which is
>>>  a really useful technical resource on Smalltalk, Pharo and ESUG infos already throughout the years:
>>>
>>>   - The forum page http://forum.world.st is summarizing various ST Mailinglists including ESUG list
>>>   - https://twitter.com/WorldDotSt aggregates most of the Pharo and Smalltalker Tweets in existence
>>>
>>> 3. You are referring in this thread here to the following tweet: https://twitter.com/AmberSmalltalk/status/1169239145530761217
>>>  which is associating @esugsmalltalk @SergeStinckwich @stephaneducasse #smalltalk for whatever reason with the hash tag #abortionismurder
>>>
>>>  I understand your reaction and post - but this was done outside our boundaries by twitter user "AmberSmalltalk" - also not by the aggregator
>>>  itself. And yes - this "AmberSmalltalk" owner seems to mix sometimes personal beliefs into technical infos. I share your doubts and dislike
>>>  this as well.
>>>
>>>  It's a problem that existed before and is a problem of tweeting and social media in general. Something that is IMHO independent from described
>>>  issue #4491 - and you and Serge definitely need to sort out this #abortionismurder thing with the owner of this specific account.
>>>
>>> 4. The issue #4491 mentions that currently the Pharo community page (http://www.pharo.org/community)
>>>
>>>  for Twitter ONLY PROMOTES
>>>      a) the offical tweet account @pharoproject
>>>      b) your personal @stephaneducasse account
>>>  as the ones to follow.
>>>
>>>  But we have many more interesting community members tweeting on Pharo as you see on the list in the referred issue. So we should either
>>>  extend the community page with either more personal accounts, just use the offical one or use an external or own aggregator
>>>  including hashtags like #pharo, #pharoproject, ...
>>>
>>>
>>> 5. As you might have noticed I also opened a second issue #4490 (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4490) as for the blogs mentioned
>>>  on the community page we have something similar:
>>>
>>>  For Blogs WE ONLY PROMOTE on that page:
>>>      a) the official pharo weekly
>>>      b) my personal astares blog
>>>      c) the personal blog of clement
>>>
>>>  But my blog is not special either - so an aggregator of the various Smalltalks blogs (as the one suggested from planet smalltalk)
>>>  made initially sense to me as it would include more blogs of members of the community and we would not have to adopt the community page all
>>>  the time a new blog appears.
>>>
>>>  There are nice Pharo blogs out there like https://www.samadhiweb.com/blog, http://humane-assessment.com/blog and many other.
>>>
>>>  Same applies here: either we just include the offical blog that we control, a list of more blogs of the various members or an aggregator
>>>
>>> 6. Yes - the community is unable to control what people write on Twitter, Blogs or other social media. Even our mailinglist "pharo-users_lists"
>>>  is not free from personal habits as yesterdays disussion about "guns" showed.
>>>  (http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2019-September/044168.html)
>>>
>>>  And maybe linking to these aggregators or promoting them is not a good idea. If we take the discussion (over)serious we should then
>>>  really only link to official twitter account and official pharo blog that the community can control.
>>>
>>>  In such a case we need to remove my blog and your personal twitter account from the community page as you sometimes tweet about
>>>  politics on your personal account too and I can potentially write on other non-technical topics on my blog as well (which I do not plan).
>>>
>>>
>>> Basically we have four options:
>>> a) we only link to the official twitter account (https://twitter.com/pharoproject) and blog (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/)
>>> b) extend the list with personal twitter accounts as mentioned in issue #4491 and blogs like mentioned in #4490
>>> c) Link and rely on external aggregators
>>> d) Setup an own aggregator on sources we trust
>>>
>>> Maybe as a valid solution an official "disclaimer" could help - that opinions shared on these PROMOTED sources are not controlled by
>>> us and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Pharo community
>>>
>>> And yes - the board should discuss, check and decide what to put or link to from the community page.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> T.
>>>
>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. September 2019 um 08:03 Uhr
>>>> Von: "ducasse" <[hidden email]>
>>>> An: "Pharo Development List" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Cc: "The Pharo Project" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Betreff: [Pharo-dev] About tweets
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys
>>>>
>>>> I encourage everybody to read this issue until the last conversation.
>>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/issues/4491
>>>>
>>>> I have problem to promote an aggregator that can contain tweets containing #abortionismurder inside.!!!!!!!!!
>>>> And I have even more problem that this is in a tweet on Amber Weekly!!!!
>>>>
>>>> I do not know who is behind AmberSmalltalk tweets but for me this is clearly impossible to read this
>>>> on a tweet that Pharo supports.
>>>>
>>>> I also have a problem to promote an aggregator account
>>>> We can provide a list and people what they want.
>>>> I do not like the idea of aggregation. So I vote against and I will ask the board to decide.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>