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Giuseppe

About web hosting

Hi again.

In this 2 months, there were changes in this? Exists now a free web
hosting like seasidehosting?

Cheers.

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Nicolas Petton

Re: About web hosting

Hi,

Sorry, there is nothing yet... I wrote an application 2 months ago for
this, but a good server is still missing.
Just to have an idea, how many people would use such a free service?
If you are interested, please let us know.

Cheers!

Nico
--
Nicolas Petton
http://nico.bioskop.fr
___
ooooooo
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|Smalltalk|
OOOOOOOOO
ooooooo
\ /
[|]
--------------------------------
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http://nico.bioskop.fr/pgp-key.html

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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Giuseppe

Hi Giuseppe,

[hidden email] wrote:

> In this 2 months, there were changes in this? Exists now a free web
> hosting like seasidehosting?

Not much because we are busy with other things like getting out
Aida/Web/Scribo 6.0 to beta for Smalltalk Solutions and final for ESUG.

But hosting is needed sooner or later, so let we think about that too.
We need Smalltalk infrastructure (besides physical one) for hosting, like:

- Swazoo with reverse proxy
- admin web app for adding new images and starting/stoping/monitoring
them

At least that is what we need for start. At least from my quick thought,
that is :) Let we start preparing this SW infrastructure before going to
choose where to physically host them.

Any more idea?

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Giuseppe

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Giuseppe

Admin web app? In smalltalk or is enough for you something in PHP?

- Vnc conections, and some space for Magma Databases could be great.

I think thath, at start, 100MB per user is enough.

Swazoo with reverse proxy? I don't know what this means sorry.

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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

[hidden email] wrote:

> Admin web app? In smalltalk or is enough for you something in PHP?

Well, in Smalltalk and Aida/Web based of course ;) We need to have this
app in control.

> - Vnc conections, and some space for Magma Databases could be great.

We should host on Linux and put every image in a "chroot jail". For
remote management I would simply use Squeak's VNC server so that we
don't need X windows on the server.

> I think thath, at start, 100MB per user is enough.

Every image will run on different Linux user account and we can define a
disk quota per user. And this can be increased/decreased by the admin app.

> Swazoo with reverse proxy? I don't know what this means sorry.

Idea is to get rid Apache as the front-end completely so that we can
control web server part of the story too. As Apache is usually connected
to back images with reverse proxy, we need to develop the same kind of
proxying on Swazoo too. Which will be all Smalltalk again, so dead
simple to manage!

Best regards
Janko

>
> _______________________________________________
> Aida mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Nicolas Petton

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

Le mardi 20 mai 2008 à 14:30 +0200, Janko Mivšek a écrit :

> Hi Giuseppe,
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > In this 2 months, there were changes in this? Exists now a free web
> > hosting like seasidehosting?
>
> Not much because we are busy with other things like getting out
> Aida/Web/Scribo 6.0 to beta for Smalltalk Solutions and final for ESUG.
>
> But hosting is needed sooner or later, so let we think about that too.
> We need Smalltalk infrastructure (besides physical one) for hosting, like:
>
> - Swazoo with reverse proxy

Yes, if we don't want to use tricky scripts with Apache, a Swazoo
reverse proxy feature would be very good :)

> - admin web app for adding new images and starting/stoping/monitoring

The application for starting/stopping images is already written (it uses
OSProcess). There is no monitoring for now.
> them
>
> At least that is what we need for start. At least from my quick thought,
> that is :) Let we start preparing this SW infrastructure before going to
> choose where to physically host them.

I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
like to know how many people are interested.

Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
in their VM and how.

Nico
--
Nicolas Petton
http://nico.bioskop.fr
___
ooooooo
OOOOOOOOO
|Smalltalk|
OOOOOOOOO
ooooooo
\ /
[|]
--------------------------------
Ma clé PGP est disponible ici :
http://nico.bioskop.fr/pgp-key.html

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Nicolas Petton

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

Le mardi 20 mai 2008 à 15:42 +0200, Janko Mivšek a écrit :

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Admin web app? In smalltalk or is enough for you something in PHP?
>
> Well, in Smalltalk and Aida/Web based of course ;) We need to have this
> app in control.
>
> > - Vnc conections, and some space for Magma Databases could be great.
>
> We should host on Linux and put every image in a "chroot jail".

Good idea :)
> For
> remote management I would simply use Squeak's VNC server so that we
> don't need X windows on the server.

There is also a VNCController package I wrote for Aida:
http://mc.bioskop.fr/VNCController

>
> > I think thath, at start, 100MB per user is enough.
>
> Every image will run on different Linux user account and we can define a
> disk quota per user. And this can be increased/decreased by the admin app.
>
> > Swazoo with reverse proxy? I don't know what this means sorry.
>
> Idea is to get rid Apache as the front-end completely so that we can
> control web server part of the story too. As Apache is usually connected
> to back images with reverse proxy, we need to develop the same kind of
> proxying on Swazoo too. Which will be all Smalltalk again, so dead
> simple to manage!
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aida mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
> >
>

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Giuseppe

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton

On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:33:53 +0200
Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
> at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
> like to know how many people are interested.
>
> Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
> reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
> in their VM and how.
>

I want to think if we ask for help to seasidehosting they will provide us with the vm or some direction to take.

> Nico
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://nico.bioskop.fr
> ___
> ooooooo
> OOOOOOOOO
> |Smalltalk|
> OOOOOOOOO
> ooooooo
> \ /
> [|]
> --------------------------------
> Ma clé PGP est disponible ici :
> http://nico.bioskop.fr/pgp-key.html
>

--
Giuseppe Luigi Punzi <[hidden email]>
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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:

> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:33:53 +0200
> Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
>> at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
>> like to know how many people are interested.
>>
>> Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
>> reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
>> in their VM and how.
>>
>
> I want to think if we ask for help to seasidehosting they will provide us with the vm or some direction to take.

That's would be fine to ask them, it is always good to cooperate,
besides just competing. And Swazoo reverse proxy would be interesting
for them too!

On the other side I would try to avoid modifying Squeak VM and rather
use Linux security tools to achieve appropriate security. Chroot jail is
one of such approaches.

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Chris Muller-3

Re: About web hosting

Has anyone tried the Linux vm on a virtual Linux host providing root
access like vm.org? Is this feasible for hosting whatever you want
straight from an image?

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:33:53 +0200
>> Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
>>> at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
>>> like to know how many people are interested.
>>>
>>> Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
>>> reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
>>> in their VM and how.
>>>
>>
>> I want to think if we ask for help to seasidehosting they will provide us with the vm or some direction to take.
>
> That's would be fine to ask them, it is always good to cooperate,
> besides just competing. And Swazoo reverse proxy would be interesting
> for them too!
>
> On the other side I would try to avoid modifying Squeak VM and rather
> use Linux security tools to achieve appropriate security. Chroot jail is
> one of such approaches.
>
> Janko
>
> --
> Janko Mivšek
> AIDA/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si
> _______________________________________________
> Aida mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>

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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

Hi Chirs,

Chris Muller wrote:

> Has anyone tried the Linux vm on a virtual Linux host providing root
> access like vm.org? Is this feasible for hosting whatever you want
> straight from an image?

I don't quite understand your question. You mean Squeak vm on Linux? To
run it directly as virtual instance on such server?

Janko

>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:33:53 +0200
>>> Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
>>>> at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
>>>> like to know how many people are interested.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
>>>> reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
>>>> in their VM and how.
>>>>
>>> I want to think if we ask for help to seasidehosting they will provide us with the vm or some direction to take.
>> That's would be fine to ask them, it is always good to cooperate,
>> besides just competing. And Swazoo reverse proxy would be interesting
>> for them too!
>>
>> On the other side I would try to avoid modifying Squeak VM and rather
>> use Linux security tools to achieve appropriate security. Chroot jail is
>> one of such approaches.
>>
>> Janko
>>
>> --
>> Janko Mivšek
>> AIDA/Web
>> Smalltalk Web Application Server
>> http://www.aidaweb.si
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aida mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Aida mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

Janko Mivšek wrote:
> Hi Chirs,

Ops, sorry for misspelling your name, Chris :)

>
> Chris Muller wrote:
>
>> Has anyone tried the Linux vm on a virtual Linux host providing root
>> access like vm.org? Is this feasible for hosting whatever you want
>> straight from an image?
>
> I don't quite understand your question. You mean Squeak vm on Linux? To
> run it directly as virtual instance on such server?
>
> Janko
>
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:33:53 +0200
>>>> Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I could *maybe* host them for start. I say maybe because it is not sure
>>>>> at all, and depends on how many images are hosted. That's why I would
>>>>> like to know how many people are interested.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I know that for seasidehosting they use a modified VM for security
>>>>> reasons. I think that it would be interesting to know what is modified
>>>>> in their VM and how.
>>>>>
>>>> I want to think if we ask for help to seasidehosting they will provide us with the vm or some direction to take.
>>> That's would be fine to ask them, it is always good to cooperate,
>>> besides just competing. And Swazoo reverse proxy would be interesting
>>> for them too!
>>>
>>> On the other side I would try to avoid modifying Squeak VM and rather
>>> use Linux security tools to achieve appropriate security. Chroot jail is
>>> one of such approaches.
>>>
>>> Janko
>>>
>>> --
>>> Janko Mivšek
>>> AIDA/Web
>>> Smalltalk Web Application Server
>>> http://www.aidaweb.si
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Aida mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aida mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>

Chris Muller-3

Re: About web hosting

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

> I don't quite understand your question. You mean Squeak vm on Linux? To
> run it directly as virtual instance on such server?

Yes.
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Janko Mivšek

Re: About web hosting

Chris, do you know if someone is already prepared such Squeak VM, for
VMware for instance?

Chris Muller wrote:
>> I don't quite understand your question. You mean Squeak vm on Linux? To
>> run it directly as virtual instance on such server?
>
> Yes.

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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