Access to Dolphin port of Seaside

Hi

Does anyone have any active link to a Dolphin port of Seaside? How
updated is it (last time I checked it wasn't). Is it actively
maintained? Are there any users of this port? I tried it on Squeak but
it hung twice on me as I tried to proceed/abandon from the debugger
popup while I was creating a toy webapp. It might be a configuration
problem on my side, but I would really prefer if a Dolphin port is
available. Dolphin Harbor and http://www.chartexplorer.com/seaside/
seems down at the moment. Thanks.

Hwee Boon

On 6 Jun 2004 21:03:20 -0700, [hidden email] (Yar Hwee Boon)
wrote:

>Hi
>
>Does anyone have any active link to a Dolphin port of Seaside? How
>updated is it (last time I checked it wasn't). Is it actively
>maintained? Are there any users of this port?
The Dolphin port was first announced at 2002/6/27 by Steve Waring with
the official web site as
"http://www.chartexplorer.com/seaside/index.html".

No further update was released since then, because Steve had declared
that new version will be ported only after Dolphin migrated to the 6th
era.

However, it is still usable ( running stably on D5.14/XP) , though it
is quite out of date , the ported version is V0.94? rather than the
current version 2.5a4 ( http://www.beta4.com/seaside2/releases.html)
maintained by the original author, Avi, on Squeak.
I'm currently using it regularly, others ( Dolphin port) unknown.

Steve had done a great job.
< IMHO>
  Without his excellent open-source contribuations at Dolphin harbor
to Dolphin community, Dolphin might lose its competitive position in
Internet world, despite how nice it is, since AFAIK, other vendors now
have  built-in internet total solutions ( enterprise) to any high
level HTTP, FTP, Mail protocols , Peer to Peer implementations, and
SOAP  specifications, etc as the standard, There are Store, SmallWiki,
Bottomfeeder etc from VW, and  SqueakMap, Monticella etc  strongly
support by Squeak community.
</IMHO>

> I tried it on Squeak but
>it hung twice on me as I tried to proceed/abandon from the debugger
>popup while I was creating a toy webapp.
I don't use the Squeak version because current Squeak platforms had
inherent serious incapacity at supporting Unicode words ( I wondered
that  it might be solved if Squeak can use native window OS GUI, such
as RichEdit controls etc.).

> It might be a configuration
>problem on my side, but I would really prefer if a Dolphin port is
>available. Dolphin Harbor and http://www.chartexplorer.com/seaside/
>seems down at the moment. Thanks.
I had the original one, put at
http://tgkuo.dyndns.org/files/seaside/D5Seaside_5.0.6.zip.

Sincerely

Tsun-guo Guo

[hidden email] (Yar Hwee Boon) wrote:

> Does anyone have any active link to a Dolphin port of Seaside? How
> updated is it (last time I checked it wasn't). Is it actively
> maintained?

It's not; there hasn't been an update to the Dolphin port for a couple
of years.

> Are there any users of this port? I tried it on Squeak but
> it hung twice on me as I tried to proceed/abandon from the debugger
> popup while I was creating a toy webapp.

The whole Squeak VM hung?  That's pretty unusual, unless you had an
infinite recursion or the like in your code.  Feel free to post to
squeak-dev or the seaside list with your problems and I'm sure they
can be resolved.

> It might be a configuration
> problem on my side, but I would really prefer if a Dolphin port is
> available. Dolphin Harbor and http://www.chartexplorer.com/seaside/
> seems down at the moment. Thanks.

If I maintained a Dolphin port of Seaside, and made it available under
a commercial license (free for non-commercial use, a small
per-developer yearly subscription for commercial use), how many people
would be interested?

Avi

> If I maintained a Dolphin port of Seaside, and made it available under
> a commercial license (free for non-commercial use, a small
> per-developer yearly subscription for commercial use), how many people
> would be interested?

+1

Hi,

The chartexplorer domain name has lapsed so I have moved the Dolphin
port of Seaside to:

http://www.dolphinharbor.org/dh/projects/goodies/seaside.html

It is an old version of Seaside and is currently not maintained by
anyone. The Squeak version of Seaside has an active community, and
they should be able to help you out with the debugger problem.

Steve

[hidden email] (Avi Bryant) wrote in message news:<[hidden email]>...
> [hidden email] (Yar Hwee Boon) wrote:
>
> The whole Squeak VM hung?  That's pretty unusual, unless you had an
> infinite recursion or the like in your code.  Feel free to post to
> squeak-dev or the seaside list with your problems and I'm sure they
> can be resolved.

Not the whole VM, I can still access the Squeak window titlebar (on
Win XP), more like morphic is not responding, but I'm not terribly
familiar with Squeak to know how I could break out of this. It
certaininly didn't look like a infinite recursion, just a simple self
halt. Might just post to squeak-dev if I can reproduce it reliabliy :)

> > problem on my side, but I would really prefer if a Dolphin port is
> > available. Dolphin Harbor and http://www.chartexplorer.com/seaside/

Didn't word it properly last time round, I meant "but I would really
prefer a Dolphin port if it is available".

>
> If I maintained a Dolphin port of Seaside, and made it available under
> a commercial license (free for non-commercial use, a small
> per-developer yearly subscription for commercial use), how many people
> would be interested?
>
> Avi

I would. Does it sound weird that I was actually thinking of
developing on Dolphin but deploying the same code on both Squeak (for
non-windows platforms) and Dolphin?


Hwee Boon

> I would. Does it sound weird that I was actually thinking of
> developing on Dolphin but deploying the same code on both Squeak (for
> non-windows platforms) and Dolphin?

Makes sense to me.

Dolphin is such a nice environment to develop in, and if you could just file
out a Seaside app from Dolphin, and file it into a squeak image running on a
linux box, with little or no changes, how nice would that be from a
development/depoyment point of view?!

Develop on Windows, Deploy on Linux. Sucks to be java.

Avi Bryant wrote:

> If I maintained a Dolphin port of Seaside, and made it available under
> a commercial license (free for non-commercial use, a small
> per-developer yearly subscription for commercial use), how many people
> would be interested?

Are you asking "how many people would be interested in either version" or "how
many people would consider the commercial version" ?

(I'd have little use for either, btw, my life is gratifyingly free from
web-servers ;-)

    -- chris

"Chris Uppal" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:<[hidden email]>...
> Avi Bryant wrote:
>
> > If I maintained a Dolphin port of Seaside, and made it available under
> > a commercial license (free for non-commercial use, a small
> > per-developer yearly subscription for commercial use), how many people
> > would be interested?
>
> Are you asking "how many people would be interested in either version" or "how
> many people would consider the commercial version" ?

The latter, I guess, as in "is there some chance of getting partially
compensated for acquiring Windows and Dolphin and taking the time to
maintain a port".  I don't expect that the port will be very
difficult, so it wouldn't take all that much interest to make it
worthwhile.

On 8 Jun 2004 09:55:57 -0700, [hidden email] (Avi Bryant) wrote:
>The latter, I guess, as in "is there some chance of getting partially
>compensated for acquiring Windows and Dolphin and taking the time to
>maintain a port".  I don't expect that the port will be very
>difficult, so it wouldn't take all that much interest to make it
>worthwhile.
It seemed somewhat unaffair to Dolphin users since there is no
extra-charge in using VW port.

OA might consider change their pricing policy, allowing time-limited
usage or free out-dated edition for non-commercial user, otherwise, it
may hinder the authors of good goodies in Squeak or VW from porting
their softwares to it.  

But there certainly is cost in maintaining Dolphin port , especially
to make it keep updated without delay, I think some small fees for the
diligent authors are reasonable  if we wanted to enjoy good services ,
...I will have my time saved on attempting porting it personally
across these two different dialects, not violating the license issue
or getting involved in those unfamiliar weird oddies.  

Let the expert do their masterpiece...

Sincerely
Tk Kuo

kuo <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:

> It seemed somewhat unaffair to Dolphin users since there is no
> extra-charge in using VW port.

I'm committed to keeping the Squeak version free for any use, but
that's not so for VW.  In general, I reserve the right to license
Seaside commercially on commercial Smalltalk dialects, I just haven't
been very aggressive about this yet.  I believe I've spoken privately
with most of the people considering commercial use on VW, but if
there's anyone out there I don't know about, they should drop me a
line.

> But there certainly is cost in maintaining Dolphin port , especially
> to make it keep updated without delay, I think some small fees for the
> diligent authors are reasonable  if we wanted to enjoy good services

Yes, that's the rationale behind charging for the ports and not the
Squeak version.  I also see some somewhat intangible benefits from
having people use Squeak commercially; in the long run, that's bound
to improve the quality of the system.  There's less intrinsic benefit
to me from people using my code on Dolphin or VW.

But I don't want to get into a long licensing discussion (there are
enough of those on squeak-dev); I just wanted to know what the
(hypothetical) interest would be in such a setup.