Smalltalk › Squeak › Squeak - Dev

All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

_‹ Previous Topic Next Topic _›

Classic

List

Threaded

6 messages Options

Chris Cunnington

All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

Sungjin Chun,

This is an amazing image. And that I've never seen or heard about it before is shocking to me.
The Google code page says nothing. Not even what it is. I mean, I've never seen an MVC only image before. I see a blog post from 2009, but nothing else ...

Really, dude, you need to writ something down about this:

Why did you make this?
What do you do use it for?
How did you get rid of Morphic? And why?

Chris

Sam Adams-2

Re: All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

Hi Chris,
We stripped down a Squeak image to its MVC roots for use in some of our research into massive multicore programming models.
I thought it was in the Squeak archives somewhere, but I'll be happy to provide you a copy via private email.

Smalltalk-80 was (and is!) and amazing system.

Regards,
Sam

Sam S. Adams, IBM Distinguished Engineer, IBM Research
Mobile: 919-696-6064, email: [hidden email]
Asst: Linda R. Morrison. (720) 395-0460 Fax: (845) 491-4318, Tie: 676-0460, email: [hidden email]
<<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, I Corinthians 1:10>>

Chris Cunnington ---07/06/2012 01:04:02 PM---Sungjin Chun, This is an amazing image. And that I've never seen or heard about it

From: Chris Cunnington <[hidden email]>
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>,
Date: 07/06/2012 01:04 PM
Subject: [squeak-dev] All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)
Sent by: [hidden email]

Sungjin Chun,

Really, dude, you need to writ something down about this:

Why did you make this?
What do you do use it for?
How did you get rid of Morphic? And why?

Chris

Stefan Marr-3

Re: All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

Hi:

On 06 Jul 2012, at 19:22, Sam Adams wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> We stripped down a Squeak image to its MVC roots for use in some of our research into massive multicore programming models.
> I thought it was in the Squeak archives somewhere, but I'll be happy to provide you a copy via private email.
>
> Smalltalk-80 was (and is!) and amazing system.
Just for reference, the image Sam talks about was made available as part of the original open sourcing effort for the RoarVM.

It is about 1.7MB and can be downloaded at:
https://github.com/downloads/smarr/RoarVM/minimal-MVC.zip

The shrinking scripts that were applied to Squeak 3.7 (or 3.8, don't remember well) are still in the image.

Best regards
Stefan

--
Stefan Marr
Software Languages Lab
Vrije Universiteit Brussel
Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium
http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr
Phone: +32 2 629 2974
Fax: +32 2 629 3525

David T. Lewis

Re: All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:12:23PM +0200, Stefan Marr wrote:

> Hi:
>
> On 06 Jul 2012, at 19:22, Sam Adams wrote:
>
> > Hi Chris,
> > We stripped down a Squeak image to its MVC roots for use in some of our research into massive multicore programming models.
> > I thought it was in the Squeak archives somewhere, but I'll be happy to provide you a copy via private email.
> >
> > Smalltalk-80 was (and is!) and amazing system.
> Just for reference, the image Sam talks about was made available as part of the original open sourcing effort for the RoarVM.
>
> It is about 1.7MB and can be downloaded at:
> https://github.com/downloads/smarr/RoarVM/minimal-MVC.zip
>
> The shrinking scripts that were applied to Squeak 3.7 (or 3.8, don't remember well) are still in the image.
>
> Best regards
> Stefan
>

MVC got somewhat broken in the 3.9 time frame, and this still needs to
be put right. Once restored to health, it should be possible to make
Morphic unloadable and reloadable in the same way that MVC is currently
unloadable and reloadable.

The most immediate problem in MVC is the lack of sufficient ToolBuilder
support to provide a working debugger. I suspect that if the debugger
can be restored to health, the rest of the issues will be straightforward.

I think that the Squeak project structure is a wonderful thing, and it
would be good if we can bring it to the point where an image can host
any combination of Morphic, MVC or other project types, and where it
would be possible to easily strip down to just a single project type,
whether MVC, Morphic, Juan's SimpleMorphic, or some other type of
project not yet invented.

Dave

Sungjin Chun

Re: All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

In reply to this post by Chris Cunnington

Too much questions fir me :-)

Why? As you might know already, there 're 3.7 or 3.7 based MVC only images. But I need unicode support in 3.8 so I made one from 3.8.1 for me.

My main usages are 1. For creating web apps using seaside and 2. in-house trading tool where MVC is used to create UI.

I've referenced 3.7 MVC shrinking chagesets and "manually" applied to create mine.

Why I removed morphic is 1. I think MVC is better than coloful morphs :-) (yes, personal taste) and 2. want to make as small image as possible.

Sorry for my poor english.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2012, at 2:02, Chris Cunnington <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sungjin Chun,

This is an amazing image. And that I've never seen or heard about it before is shocking to me.
The Google code page says nothing. Not even what it is. I mean, I've never seen an MVC only image before. I see a blog post from 2009, but nothing else ...

Really, dude, you need to writ something down about this:

Why did you make this?
What do you do use it for?
How did you get rid of Morphic? And why?

Chris

Hannes Hirzel

Re: All MVC image ( was Looking for Squeak-80)

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

On 7/6/12, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:12:23PM +0200, Stefan Marr wrote:
>> Hi:
>>
>> On 06 Jul 2012, at 19:22, Sam Adams wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Chris,
>> > We stripped down a Squeak image to its MVC roots for use in some of our
>> > research into massive multicore programming models.
>> > I thought it was in the Squeak archives somewhere, but I'll be happy to
>> > provide you a copy via private email.
>> >
>> > Smalltalk-80 was (and is!) and amazing system.
>> Just for reference, the image Sam talks about was made available as part
>> of the original open sourcing effort for the RoarVM.
>>
>> It is about 1.7MB and can be downloaded at:
>> https://github.com/downloads/smarr/RoarVM/minimal-MVC.zip
>>
>> The shrinking scripts that were applied to Squeak 3.7 (or 3.8, don't
>> remember well) are still in the image.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Stefan
>>
>
> MVC got somewhat broken in the 3.9 time frame, and this still needs to
> be put right. Once restored to health, it should be possible to make
> Morphic unloadable and reloadable in the same way that MVC is currently
> unloadable and reloadable.
>
> The most immediate problem in MVC is the lack of sufficient ToolBuilder
> support to provide a working debugger. I suspect that if the debugger
> can be restored to health, the rest of the issues will be straightforward.

There was considerable progress on fixing the debugger in 2010.
Andreas Raab started a thread on Sep 7, 2010 with 42 follow up posts.
Andreas Raab, David T. Lewis and Florin Mateoc worked on the debugger.

I think before that MVC did not even start properly..

What still does not work in addition is

- FileList
- SystemBrowser shows improper button layout (instance / ? / class).

Of course at this very moment the best thing for people interested in
MVC is just to take
Sungjin Chun's image
https://code.google.com/p/nxt-web/downloads

or the one Sam Adams / Stefan Marr were talking about
https://github.com/downloads/smarr/RoarVM/minimal-MVC.zip (1.7MB)

--Hannes

> I think that the Squeak project structure is a wonderful thing, and it
> would be good if we can bring it to the point where an image can host
> any combination of Morphic, MVC or other project types, and where it
> would be possible to easily strip down to just a single project type,
> whether MVC, Morphic, Juan's SimpleMorphic, or some other type of
> project not yet invented.
>
> Dave
>
>
>