[Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

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[Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Juan Vuletich-4
Hi Folks,

Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html .
Biggest news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds'
are gone! All coordinates are now Float and relative to the owner morph.
This is part of the transition to Morphic 3. The drawing engine is still
BitBlt and the UI is not scalable yet, but Morphic 3 is now much closer.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

garduino
Congrats!


2012/12/12 Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>
Hi Folks,

Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Biggest news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds' are gone! All coordinates are now Float and relative to the owner morph. This is part of the transition to Morphic 3. The drawing engine is still BitBlt and the UI is not scalable yet, but Morphic 3 is now much closer.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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--
============================================
Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
Arduino Software  http://www.arduinosoftware.com
PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
greensecure.blogspot.com germanarduino.blogspot.com
============================================

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Randy Siler
Congratulations Juan! 

This is fantastic. Really great to hear. I have been reading of your work and feeling very glad that someone was working on the ambitious goals you have set for yourself and was getting a little worried it appeared to maybe have stalled, so it is so great to hear that you are still on track and making progress. 

I'm looking forward to looking more deeply into Cuis 4.1!

Randy Siler
University of Washington

On Dec 12, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:

Congrats!


2012/12/12 Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>
Hi Folks,

Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Biggest news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds' are gone! All coordinates are now Float and relative to the owner morph. This is part of the transition to Morphic 3. The drawing engine is still BitBlt and the UI is not scalable yet, but Morphic 3 is now much closer.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

_______________________________________________
Cuis mailing list
[hidden email]
http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org



--
============================================
Germán S. Arduino  <gsa @ arsol.net>   Twitter: garduino
Arduino Software  http://www.arduinosoftware.com
PasswordsPro  http://www.passwordspro.com
greensecure.blogspot.com germanarduino.blogspot.com
============================================
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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Casey Ransberger-2
In reply to this post by Juan Vuletich-4
Below.

On Dec 12, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Biggest news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds' are gone! All coordinates are now Float and relative to the owner morph. This is part of the transition to Morphic 3. The drawing engine is still BitBlt and the UI is not scalable yet, but Morphic 3 is now much closer.
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org

Congrats on another release, Juan! Glad to see it out in the wild. I'll be getting it out when I get back to the laptop for sure.

I've been itching to play with M3 for some time now, so thanks for getting Cuis closer to where it needs to be for that to happen.

Casey
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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Juan Vuletich-4
> Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Biggest
> news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds' are gone!

Wow!  To get rid of those two is amazing; how did you do it?!

Oh, but wouldn't you need at least one of them?  How to know a Morphs
extent now?

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Juan Vuletich-4
Chris Muller wrote:
>> Cuis 4.1 is available at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Biggest
>> news is in the Morph hierarchy. Ivars 'bounds' and 'fullBounds' are gone!
>>    
>
> Wow!  To get rid of those two is amazing; how did you do it?!
>
> Oh, but wouldn't you need at least one of them?  How to know a Morphs
> extent now?
>  

Hi Chris,

I removed them with a lot of patience. Doing so low level surgery on the
live system is quite risky!

The idea is that location (position, angle, scale, and/or whatever
specification of how a Morph is placed in its owner) should be
completely separated from attributes such as extent. Any morph needs a
location. But not all morphs need an extent. For example, a polyline, or
Bezier path would be specified by corners or control points. Not by
extent. In addition, the location of a morph is a rather accidental
attribute. Moving an object around is not modifying it. Maybe two morphs
with different location can still answer true to #=. But changing size
is indeed a modification. Two morphs with different extent (or control
points or whatever specifies their shape) are indeed different (i.e.
they answer false to #=).

Right now, Cuis doesn't include examples of morphs without extent
(except for Morph itself), as the only morphs that are present are those
needed to support the Smalltalk tools. Because of this, the only
subclass of Morph is RectangleLikeMorph, that happens to use an extent
ivar with the size.

But in Morphic 3, most interesting morphs are not specified by an
extent, but by some set of control points.

BTW, instances of Morph are not resizeable (I had to add an update to
github to avoid a walkback! :) ).

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Juan Vuletich-4
Quoting Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:

>> The idea is that location (position, angle, scale, and/or whatever
>> specification of how a Morph is placed in its owner) should be completely
>> separated from attributes such as extent. Any morph needs a location. But
>> not all morphs need an extent. For example, a polyline, or Bezier path would
>> be specified by corners or control points. Not by extent. In addition, the
>
> That makes sense.  But isn't a rectangular extent still useful for
> quick identification of damaged areas, e.g., to support efficient
> redraw?
>

That´s a problem for the Morphic machinery, not a problem for Morphs  
and their programmers. Somebody coding her morphs only needs to care  
about appareance and behavior. Not about low level problems such as  
damaged areas.

The underlying machinery (World, Canvases, Hand, etc) need to know  
about damaged areas and such. These are usually in Display  
coordinates, not in Morph coordinates. (Remember that the objective is  
to build a ZUI). Even there, a rectangle (aligned with Display or  
surface edges) is not the only alternative... Apple´s QuickDraw used  
regions for this in 1982!

Squeak´s Morphic merges all this at a single level. The initial design  
is simpler, but to support rotation and scaling (via TransformMorphs  
and WarpBlt), one consequence is terrible visual quality, because  
drawing is done in fake coordinates, and it´s bitmaps that are scaled,  
not drawing operations. In addition, these fake coordinates don´t  
really make much sense, and the resulting object mashups are very hard  
to inspect and debug.

Fixing this mess is one of the central objectives of Cuis and Morphic 3.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich


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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Chris Muller-3
Extremely impressive Juan.  Congratulations.  Morphic3 is something
that sounds worth breaking backward-compatibility in Squeak if it
would ever possible to run there.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Quoting Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
>
>>> The idea is that location (position, angle, scale, and/or whatever
>>> specification of how a Morph is placed in its owner) should be completely
>>> separated from attributes such as extent. Any morph needs a location. But
>>> not all morphs need an extent. For example, a polyline, or Bezier path
>>> would
>>> be specified by corners or control points. Not by extent. In addition,
>>> the
>>
>>
>> That makes sense.  But isn't a rectangular extent still useful for
>> quick identification of damaged areas, e.g., to support efficient
>> redraw?
>>
>
> That´s a problem for the Morphic machinery, not a problem for Morphs and
> their programmers. Somebody coding her morphs only needs to care about
> appareance and behavior. Not about low level problems such as damaged areas.
>
> The underlying machinery (World, Canvases, Hand, etc) need to know about
> damaged areas and such. These are usually in Display coordinates, not in
> Morph coordinates. (Remember that the objective is to build a ZUI). Even
> there, a rectangle (aligned with Display or surface edges) is not the only
> alternative... Apple´s QuickDraw used regions for this in 1982!
>
> Squeak´s Morphic merges all this at a single level. The initial design is
> simpler, but to support rotation and scaling (via TransformMorphs and
> WarpBlt), one consequence is terrible visual quality, because drawing is
> done in fake coordinates, and it´s bitmaps that are scaled, not drawing
> operations. In addition, these fake coordinates don´t really make much
> sense, and the resulting object mashups are very hard to inspect and debug.
>
> Fixing this mess is one of the central objectives of Cuis and Morphic 3.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Juan Vuletich-4
> Extremely impressive Juan.  Congratulations.  Morphic3 is something
> that sounds worth breaking backward-compatibility in Squeak if it
> would ever possible to run there.

Thanks Chris. I still need to work on M3 for several months before it is
usable. I hope to be able to release some alpha code sooner. In any case,
what you say opens many interesting questions. Cuis was forked just for
technical reasons (not social or personal), and I think it still is a
'Squeak distribution'.

If there is enough interest in the Squeak community, the bigger issue is
how to deal with multiple distributions. Does Squeak need to support just
one distribution? Can it handle several? Or maybe there should not be an
'official squeak', but a set of pieces from where anybody could build her
own, personalized Squeak?

I don't have any answers. But I'm willing to think and discuss, to find
the best way, for people to have freedom to pick their own balance between
between compatibility, features,
evolutivity, etc. All this, enabling reuse and reducing duplication of
efforts...

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Quoting Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>>> The idea is that location (position, angle, scale, and/or whatever
>>>> specification of how a Morph is placed in its owner) should be
>>>> completely
>>>> separated from attributes such as extent. Any morph needs a location.
>>>> But
>>>> not all morphs need an extent. For example, a polyline, or Bezier path
>>>> would
>>>> be specified by corners or control points. Not by extent. In addition,
>>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>> That makes sense.  But isn't a rectangular extent still useful for
>>> quick identification of damaged areas, e.g., to support efficient
>>> redraw?
>>>
>>
>> That´s a problem for the Morphic machinery, not a problem for Morphs
>> and
>> their programmers. Somebody coding her morphs only needs to care about
>> appareance and behavior. Not about low level problems such as damaged
>> areas.
>>
>> The underlying machinery (World, Canvases, Hand, etc) need to know about
>> damaged areas and such. These are usually in Display coordinates, not in
>> Morph coordinates. (Remember that the objective is to build a ZUI). Even
>> there, a rectangle (aligned with Display or surface edges) is not the
>> only
>> alternative... Apple´s QuickDraw used regions for this in 1982!
>>
>> Squeak´s Morphic merges all this at a single level. The initial design
>> is
>> simpler, but to support rotation and scaling (via TransformMorphs and
>> WarpBlt), one consequence is terrible visual quality, because drawing is
>> done in fake coordinates, and it´s bitmaps that are scaled, not drawing
>> operations. In addition, these fake coordinates don´t really make much
>> sense, and the resulting object mashups are very hard to inspect and
>> debug.
>>
>> Fixing this mess is one of the central objectives of Cuis and Morphic 3.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Juan Vuletich
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cuis mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cuis mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
>


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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

David T. Lewis
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 04:19:54PM -0300, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Extremely impressive Juan.  Congratulations.  Morphic3 is something
> > that sounds worth breaking backward-compatibility in Squeak if it
> > would ever possible to run there.
>
> Thanks Chris. I still need to work on M3 for several months before it is
> usable. I hope to be able to release some alpha code sooner. In any case,
> what you say opens many interesting questions. Cuis was forked just for
> technical reasons (not social or personal), and I think it still is a
> 'Squeak distribution'.

To me, Cuis represents the best of Squeak: Elegant simplicity, high quality,
and a sense of vision. While I personally spend most of my time with Squeak
trunk, I really do appreciate Cuis.

>
> If there is enough interest in the Squeak community, the bigger issue is
> how to deal with multiple distributions. Does Squeak need to support just
> one distribution? Can it handle several? Or maybe there should not be an
> 'official squeak', but a set of pieces from where anybody could build her
> own, personalized Squeak?

Good questions. And if we can do these things, we should also be able
to do a better job of supporting and enabling Etoys, Scratch, and other
'distributions'. Ultimately perhaps Cuis may provide a better way of doing
these things, as it seems to be inherently simpler and smaller than the
'official Squeak' itself.

Dave

>
> I don't have any answers. But I'm willing to think and discuss, to find
> the best way, for people to have freedom to pick their own balance between
> between compatibility, features,
> evolutivity, etc. All this, enabling reuse and reducing duplication of
> efforts...
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>

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Re: [Ann] Cuis 4.1 is released

Juan Vuletich-4
Hi David,

David T. Lewis wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 04:19:54PM -0300, [hidden email] wrote:
>  
>>> Extremely impressive Juan.  Congratulations.  Morphic3 is something
>>> that sounds worth breaking backward-compatibility in Squeak if it
>>> would ever possible to run there.
>>>      
>> Thanks Chris. I still need to work on M3 for several months before it is
>> usable. I hope to be able to release some alpha code sooner. In any case,
>> what you say opens many interesting questions. Cuis was forked just for
>> technical reasons (not social or personal), and I think it still is a
>> 'Squeak distribution'.
>>    
>
> To me, Cuis represents the best of Squeak: Elegant simplicity, high quality,
> and a sense of vision. While I personally spend most of my time with Squeak
> trunk, I really do appreciate Cuis.
>  

Thanks, David. I added your nice words to the Cuis web page. (I hope you
don't mind!)

>> If there is enough interest in the Squeak community, the bigger issue is
>> how to deal with multiple distributions. Does Squeak need to support just
>> one distribution? Can it handle several? Or maybe there should not be an
>> 'official squeak', but a set of pieces from where anybody could build her
>> own, personalized Squeak?
>>    
>
> Good questions. And if we can do these things, we should also be able
> to do a better job of supporting and enabling Etoys, Scratch, and other
> 'distributions'. Ultimately perhaps Cuis may provide a better way of doing
> these things, as it seems to be inherently simpler and smaller than the
> 'official Squeak' itself.
>
> Dave
>  

This would be a dream come true.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

>> I don't have any answers. But I'm willing to think and discuss, to find
>> the best way, for people to have freedom to pick their own balance between
>> between compatibility, features,
>> evolutivity, etc. All this, enabling reuse and reducing duplication of
>> efforts...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Juan Vuletich
>>
>>    


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