Anybody see this?

> Can you say anything more about it than just building traffic for  
> the web site?
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
>
>> http://280atlas.com/
>>
>> Kind of world rocking I think.
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Can you say anything more about it than just building traffic for  
> the web site?
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
>
>> http://280atlas.com/
>>
>> Kind of world rocking I think.
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre
> de Eagle Offshore
> Enviado el: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 04:42
> Para: Seaside - general discussion
> Asunto: Re: [Seaside] Anybody see this?
>
> Difficult to find the words.
> Lets say I think they're well on their way to taking web application  
> development to desktop development levels - its basically Cocoa  
> development, but in your browser, for browser based apps.  
> Really game  
> changing stuff.
>
> If they succeed (and the demos are pretty strong) it kind of
> makes the  
> whole seaside thing seem quaint by comparison.
>
> But you should see it yourself.
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:14 PM, James Foster wrote:
>
> > Can you say anything more about it than just building traffic for  
> > the web site?
> >
> > On Apr 7, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
> >
> >> http://280atlas.com/
> >>
> >> Kind of world rocking I think.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> seaside mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > seaside mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre
> de Boris Popov
> Enviado el: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 14:40
> Para: Seaside - general discussion
> Asunto: RE: [Seaside] Anybody see this?
>
> I guess where I can't relate to this is the part about tweaking the
> design, because if you separate coding from design and have
> professionals working in their own element on each,
> developers can focus
> on functionality and designers can focus on design. Most usable web
> applications don't just have input fields, lists and buttons. You can
> tell I'm sceptical, but I'll be keeping an eye on things as they
> develop. There's a long history of UI builders failing for
> many reasons
> and we have yet to see one succeed.
>
> -Boris
>
> --
> +1.604.689.0322
> DeepCove Labs Ltd.
> 4th floor 595 Howe Street
> Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
> http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eagle
> Offshore
> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 10:32 AM
> To: Seaside - general discussion
> Subject: Re: [Seaside] Anybody see this?
>
> Its funny but I'm hearing seasiders dismiss this technology
> using many  
> of the same arguments that non-seasiders use to dismiss
> seaside.  You  
> sound exactly the same as your detractors.
>
> There are multiple backends for capuccino - including php.  
> PHP scales  
> like crazy.  Not worried.  It is not hard to imagine writing
> a single  
> data access handler to bridge database requests and forgetting about  
> it.  There's a nice little minimal ActiveRecord for PHP I
> just used on  
> a prototype that kicks any database access technology I've used in  
> Squeak in simplicity, usability, and speed.
>
> They've essentially implemented Cocoa in Javascript
> (Capuccino) and a  
> commercial product using that (http://280slides.com/), and
> now they're  
> using that to implement Interface Builder and XCode.  They say it  
> works in all common browsers identically including IE6.
>
> To me it looks very "turtles all the way down" but abstracts
> away the  
> whole web trash heap.  For applications, not websites.  I see
> a lot in  
> common with lively kernel.  SproutCore looks nice but it is
> very much  
> a web technology.
>
> As to the comment about the complex part of applications not
> being the  
> interface - on web apps I spend 95% of my time tweaking UI -
> fiddling  
> CSS rules usually or typing endless nestings of builder methods to  
> generate taggage to implement simple things.  UI is all I do
> on the web.
>
> Anyhow, their demo is better than any gui builder that has appeared  
> for squeak - morphic or web.
>
> I'm not here to trash seaside - I think it rocks.  But I find the  
> render/canvas extremely tiresome to work with because at the end of  
> the day its still building web noise and I think lively
> kernel/ html5  
> canvas and cappucino/atlas are hinting at a major shift and
> some deep  
> thinking and reexamination is in order.  That's my point.
>
> -Todd Blanchard
>
> On Apr 8, 2009, at 7:57 AM, Sebastian Sastre wrote:
>
> > It says nothing about how good is to build the application itself.  
> > Not to
> > mention scaling complexity.
> > So far I see no signal of that being better than a modern
> version of  
> > visual
> > basic for the web.
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2009, at 7:12 AM, Boris Popov wrote:
> > a) any design choices beyond what they offer might be hard to  
> > implement
> > b) the complex part of today's applications isn't the
> interface, it's
> > whatever is behind it
> _______________________________________________
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> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre
> de Eagle Offshore
> Enviado el: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 16:03
> Para: Seaside - general discussion
> Asunto: Re: [Seaside] Anybody see this?
>
> I keep hearing about this and in practice it seems to be a fantasy.  
> I've worked with a half dozen designers in the last year and none of  
> them have more than a rudimentary skill level with CSS and I end up  
> correcting a lot of it.
>

> On Apr 8, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Boris Popov wrote:
>
> > if you separate coding from design and have
> > professionals working in their own element on each, developers can  
> > focus
> > on functionality and designers can focus on design.
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> I still think that this is not that easy to define really stupid  
> applications managing list of items.
> There is a lack of ready to customize solutions.
>
> edit
> add/delete
> see report
> output report
>
> for really stupid items.
> I see this as a reccurring patterns.
>
> I imagine the same for
> tabbed
> menu
> navigation
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> Django has "the admin" module - also really amazing as an easy to  
> customize admin solution (but not from the browser).
>
> Good end to end solutions are appearing for data editing - but not  
> so much for more conventional application widgetry with layout  
> management and such.
>
> On Apr 8, 2009, at 11:51 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> I still think that this is not that easy to define really stupid  
>> applications managing list of items.
>> There is a lack of ready to customize solutions.
>>
>> edit
>> add/delete
>> see report
>> output report
>>
>> for really stupid items.
>> I see this as a reccurring patterns.
>>
>> I imagine the same for
>> tabbed
>> menu
>> navigation
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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>