Anyone have 7.7 images that won't start?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Smith
> Sent: 23. helmikuuta 2011 22:58
> To: VWNC,
> Subject: [vwnc] Anyone have 7.7 images that won't start?
>
>
> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>
> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and

> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>
> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>      - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>      - saved the image -- would not start
>      - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>      - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
> more times,
>          the image suddenly would not start
>      - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file
> and
> its OK
>          (for now)
>
> Anyone seen this??
>
> --
> Dennis Smith                         +1 416.798.7948
> Cherniak Software Development Corporation   Fax: +1 416.798.0948
> 509-2001 Sheppard Avenue East        [hidden email]
> Toronto, ON M2J 4Z8              sip:[hidden email]
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> Entrance off Yorkland Blvd south of Sheppard Ave east of the DVP
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>
> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>
> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>
> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>
> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>       - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>       - saved the image -- would not start
>       - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>       - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
> more times,
>           the image suddenly would not start
>       - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
> its OK
>           (for now)
>
> Anyone seen this??
>

> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>
> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>
>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>
>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>
>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>
>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>        - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>        - saved the image -- would not start
>>        - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>        - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>> more times,
>>            the image suddenly would not start
>>        - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>> its OK
>>            (for now)
>>
>> Anyone seen this??
>>

> I haven't seen that, and also usually save images connected to Store
> (PostgreSQL on LAN).
>
> I'd probably attach to the hung process with a C debugger and attempt
> to dump stacks. Details on how to do this used to be on the UIUC wiki
> -- has that information been published elsewhere?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Martin

> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>
> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>
> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>
>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>
>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>
>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>
>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>
>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>         - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>         - saved the image -- would not start
>>>         - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>         - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>>> more times,
>>>             the image suddenly would not start
>>>         - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>>> its OK
>>>             (for now)
>>>
>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>

> Martin McClure wrote:
>> I'd probably attach to the hung process with a C debugger and attempt to
>> dump stacks. Details on how to do this used to be on the UIUC wiki --
>> has that information been published elsewhere?
> From bin\win\readme.txt:
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/VM+Info
>  
> I just neatened that up a little (all line breaks had been doubled). I
> also added a section on WinDBG, with thanks to Andres Valloud for
> showing me the ropes.

> On 02/23/11 23:30, Steven Kelly wrote:
> > Martin McClure wrote:
> >> I'd probably attach to the hung process with a C debugger and
> >> attempt to dump stacks. Details on how to do this used to be on
> >> the UIUC wiki - has that information been published elsewhere?
> >
> > From bin\win\readme.txt:
> > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/VM+Info
> >
> > I just neatened that up a little (all line breaks had been doubled).
> > I also added a section on WinDBG, with thanks to Andres Valloud for
> > showing me the ropes.
>
> Thanks! Is the note at the top about being "not fully up to date as of
> October 2008" still true?

> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>
> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>    
>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>
>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>
>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>      
>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>
>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>        
>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>
>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>
>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>
>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>          - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>          - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>          - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>          - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>>>> more times,
>>>>              the image suddenly would not start
>>>>          - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>>>> its OK
>>>>              (for now)
>>>>
>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>
>>>>          
>    

> Hello All,
> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved
> on the win 7 (64 bit).
>
> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>  something like following:
>
>
> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>
> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>
>
> Alan Knight wrote:
>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>
>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>
>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>
>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>
>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and
>>>>> start it
>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before
>>>>> saving.
>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>
>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>          - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>          - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>          - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>          - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a
>>>>> dozen or
>>>>> more times,
>>>>>              the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>          - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran
>>>>> changes file and
>>>>> its OK
>>>>>              (for now)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>
>

> Hello All,
> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved on
> the win 7 (64 bit).
>
> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>    something like following:
>
>
> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>
> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>
>
> Alan Knight wrote:
>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>
>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>
>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>
>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>
>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>
>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>
>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>
>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>           - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>           - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>           - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>           - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>>>>> more times,
>>>>>               the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>           - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>>>>> its OK
>>>>>               (for now)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> Helps that someone else is seeing this too.
> Your workaround fixed my specific case -- thank you.
>
>
> On Feb 25/11 4:33 PM, Mark Pirogovsky wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved on
>> the win 7 (64 bit).
>>
>> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
>> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>>     something like following:
>>
>>
>> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>>
>> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>>
>>
>> Alan Knight wrote:
>>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>>
>>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>>
>>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>>            - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>>            - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>>            - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>>            - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>>>>>> more times,
>>>>>>                the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>>            - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>>>>>> its OK
>>>>>>                (for now)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>

> So, if you see this, what sort of error do you get when starting it, if
> any? And if you run it with something like -o10s, what does it produce?
>
> I seem to be able to run a batch file that starts up a simple image and
> files in a command to wait a couple of seconds and save it a hundred
> times on Win7-64 with no problems. The memory issue suggests there might
> be a problem with the initial headroom or something of that nature. That
> might easily only manifest if the image had more stuff. Have either of
> you tried it with a 7.7.1 or a 7.8 pre-release, either with an image, or
> using a more recent VM on an existing image that had this issue.
>
> On 2011-02-25 4:33 PM, Mark Pirogovsky wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved
>> on the win 7 (64 bit).
>>
>> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
>> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>>   something like following:
>>
>>
>> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>>
>> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>>
>>
>> Alan Knight wrote:
>>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>>
>>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>>
>>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and
>>>>>> start it
>>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before
>>>>>> saving.
>>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>>           - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>>           - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>>           - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>>           - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a
>>>>>> dozen or
>>>>>> more times,
>>>>>>               the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>>           - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran
>>>>>> changes file and
>>>>>> its OK
>>>>>>               (for now)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>>

> When a bad image starts I get nothing, just the splash screen and .wav
> file sound, then nothing.
> Its not far enough along to let me use CTRL+SHIFT+Y or other to see
> where it is.
>
> I did get a -o10s trace which I sent to support -- and Mark's workaround
> at least gets me going
> for now.
>
> I will read over all the associated documentation and notes over the
> weekend -- thanks to everyone!
>
> On Feb 25/11 5:12 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>> So, if you see this, what sort of error do you get when starting it, if
>> any? And if you run it with something like -o10s, what does it produce?
>>
>> I seem to be able to run a batch file that starts up a simple image and
>> files in a command to wait a couple of seconds and save it a hundred
>> times on Win7-64 with no problems. The memory issue suggests there might
>> be a problem with the initial headroom or something of that nature. That
>> might easily only manifest if the image had more stuff. Have either of
>> you tried it with a 7.7.1 or a 7.8 pre-release, either with an image, or
>> using a more recent VM on an existing image that had this issue.
>>
>> On 2011-02-25 4:33 PM, Mark Pirogovsky wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved
>>> on the win 7 (64 bit).
>>>
>>> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
>>> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>>>    something like following:
>>>
>>>
>>> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>>>
>>> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan Knight wrote:
>>>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>>>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>>>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>>>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>>>
>>>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and
>>>>>>> start it
>>>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before
>>>>>>> saving.
>>>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>>>            - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>>>            - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>>>            - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>>>            - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a
>>>>>>> dozen or
>>>>>>> more times,
>>>>>>>                the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>>>            - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran
>>>>>>> changes file and
>>>>>>> its OK
>>>>>>>                (for now)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>>>
>

> Helps that someone else is seeing this too.
> Your workaround fixed my specific case -- thank you.
>
>
> On Feb 25/11 4:33 PM, Mark Pirogovsky wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I have seen this a lot lately.  especially with the  7.7 images saved on
>> the win 7 (64 bit).
>>
>> here is the solution which might help -- try to increase the amount of
>> memory available to smalltalk process on the command line,
>>     something like following:
>>
>>
>> vwnt.exe -z 20m  -h 100m  YourBadNonStartingImage.im
>>
>> also it seem that using vwnt.exe  V.S. visual.exe helps as well.
>>
>>
>> Alan Knight wrote:
>>> The base image, when dragged onto a VM, or when double-clicked with my
>>> setup, does not have a splash screen. You can re-enable it with an image
>>> setting, but it's off by default, and has been, I believe, since 7.5.
>>> Are you turning it back on? If not, maybe this is part of your issue.
>>>
>>> On 2011-02-23 7:10 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> 7.7? or 7.7.1?
>>>>
>>>> My 7.7 .im file when clicked starts with a splash screen???
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23/11 7:00 PM, Alan Knight wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As an aside, a 7.7 image won't by default start with a splash screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-02-23 3:57 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ( Windows 7 and Windows XP)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every so often (on more often lately) I save an image and try and start it
>>>>>> and the splash screen comes up and nothing else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing that will interrupt it is task-manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was suggested that I be sure to disconnect from Store before saving.
>>>>>> It now disconnects and waits 2 seconds before saving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This helped for a while, but the latest was
>>>>>>            - last night I updated/loaded from Store
>>>>>>            - saved the image -- would not start
>>>>>>            - rebuilt from the ground up (loading from Store)
>>>>>>            - today (15 hours later), having saved and restarted a dozen or
>>>>>> more times,
>>>>>>                the image suddenly would not start
>>>>>>            - I retrieved a copy from earlier today and re-ran changes file and
>>>>>> its OK
>>>>>>                (for now)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone seen this??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc