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Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SciSmalltalk mailing list
Bonjour Serge,

I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.

I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.

I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !

If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?

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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

stepharo
Why should we have the burden to maintain it for other dialects?
Then we do not make it divergent for the sake of it.

Stef

Bonjour Serge,

I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.

I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.

I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !

If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

Tudor Girba-2
In reply to this post by SciSmalltalk mailing list
Hi,

The mistake would have been to leave the library in the book with nobody caring about it.

Now, someone took the energy to revive it and create a sustainable project around it. The choice should remain with those people that want to invest energy. If others want to invest energy to load it in other places, that effort will likely be welcome.

Please, let’s move on.

Cheers,
Doru


> On Mar 6, 2016, at 11:13 AM, 'bstjean' via SciSmalltalk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bonjour Serge,
>
> I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.
>
> I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.
>
> I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !
>
> If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SciSmalltalk" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SciSmalltalk mailing list
And those guys are Didier H. Besset and Serge Stinckwich..

Why don't we just let them decide!

It all started by a great book.  Not a Pharo book or thing, a math & Smalltalk book.

Let them decide!

Is it gonna be a "Pharo-only" thing or a Smalltalk thing?


 
-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)



From: Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

Hi,

The mistake would have been to leave the library in the book with nobody caring about it.

Now, someone took the energy to revive it and create a sustainable project around it. The choice should remain with those people that want to invest energy. If others want to invest energy to load it in other places, that effort will likely be welcome.

Please, let’s move on.

Cheers,
Doru


> On Mar 6, 2016, at 11:13 AM, 'bstjean' via SciSmalltalk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bonjour Serge,
>
> I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.
>
> I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.
>
> I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !
>
> If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SciSmalltalk" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to scismalltalk+[hidden email]
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."


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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SergeStinckwich
In reply to this post by SciSmalltalk mailing list
On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 11:13 AM, 'bstjean' via SciSmalltalk
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Bonjour Serge,

Bonjour Benoit,

> I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on
> various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.
>
> I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this
> fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is
> moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.
>
> I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers
> if that's the case !
>
> If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same
> thing for SciSmalltalk ?

Sorry guys, I will not spend time and energy about discussing what is
Pharo or what should be Pharo ...
For me "Pharo is yours". It means we are a community of doers (or makers).

BTW, I'm using Pharo everyday for my work and I'm naturally biased
towards Pharo.

In the ConfigurationOfSciSmalltalk, there is spec for Squeak, but I'm
not sure our library is still working
with recent Squeak versions. There is no CI for Squeak also.
If you have time, please push commits to the code repository in order
to correct this.
I don't have time to invest in others Smalltalks but feel free to do it.

There are plenty of tasks to do : add more documentation, add issues
in the issue tracker:
https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk/issues
,clean the packages organization, etc ...

Thank you.
Regards,
--
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SciSmalltalk mailing list
Serge, if Squeak, Dolphin, VAST, VW, OS, Amber and others cannot participate in the race, f*ck them!

But all I'm saying is "let's run the same race" !
Can we, ***at least*** make an effort to make SciSmalltalk portable ?!?!

Those who don't care will die.
 
-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)



From: Serge Stinckwich <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 11:13 AM, 'bstjean' via SciSmalltalk
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Bonjour Serge,

Bonjour Benoit,

> I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on
> various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.
>
> I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this
> fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is
> moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.
>
> I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers
> if that's the case !
>
> If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same
> thing for SciSmalltalk ?

Sorry guys, I will not spend time and energy about discussing what is
Pharo or what should be Pharo ...
For me "Pharo is yours". It means we are a community of doers (or makers).

BTW, I'm using Pharo everyday for my work and I'm naturally biased
towards Pharo.

In the ConfigurationOfSciSmalltalk, there is spec for Squeak, but I'm
not sure our library is still working
with recent Squeak versions. There is no CI for Squeak also.
If you have time, please push commits to the code repository in order
to correct this.
I don't have time to invest in others Smalltalks but feel free to do it.

There are plenty of tasks to do : add more documentation, add issues
in the issue tracker:
https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk/issues
,clean the packages organization, etc ...

Thank you.
Regards,
--
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/


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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SergeStinckwich
In reply to this post by stepharo
Nothing happens magically !

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 mars 2016, at 11:23, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Why should we have the burden to maintain it for other dialects?
Then we do not make it divergent for the sake of it.

Stef

Bonjour Serge,

I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.

I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.

I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !

If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
--
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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

SciSmalltalk mailing list
In reply to this post by stepharo
Hi Stéphane & Serge & all,

All I'm trying to say is that I get the impression that the SciSmalltalk (or whatever other name it'll have) library is heading towards Pharo-centric code.

The first version of DHB Numerical methods was for VisualAge and Didier did a great job at keeping the code as portable as he could.  In fact, in most early ports, you barely had to change one line of code!

I can easily understand that there are occasions when portability cannot be achieved : GUI stuff is a clear example.

Math stuff (the number crunching part, not Roassal or all the nice data visualization tools Pharo has or that it will add to this library) shouldn't be such a burden to be made portable.

If Glorp could do it with external interfaces, network stuff, different datatypes, different client interfaces, various SQL syntax, different behavior on different platforms, etc, why shouldn't we be able to do a *minimal* effort to make this wonderful library dialect-friendly?

I'm not saying Pharoers should have the responsibility to maintain 5 different versions of SciSmalltalk for all other Smalltalk dialects!

All I'm saying is that, whenever possible, could we pick the dialect-neutral version of code instead of deliberately pick something Pharo-specific?

And if that's a given and understood by everyone, the library could get some help from people coding in Dolphin, Squeak, VisualAge, VisualWorks, ObjectStudio & others.

We would all benefit from this if we'd work together and agree upon one thing : keep the code as portable as possible.
 
-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)



From: stepharo <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

Why should we have the burden to maintain it for other dialects?
Then we do not make it divergent for the sake of it.

Stef

Bonjour Serge,

I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.

I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.

I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !

If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
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Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

Didier Besset
Can only agree to this!

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:13 AM, 'Benoit St-Jean' via SciSmalltalk <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Stéphane & Serge & all,

All I'm trying to say is that I get the impression that the SciSmalltalk (or whatever other name it'll have) library is heading towards Pharo-centric code.

The first version of DHB Numerical methods was for VisualAge and Didier did a great job at keeping the code as portable as he could.  In fact, in most early ports, you barely had to change one line of code!

I can easily understand that there are occasions when portability cannot be achieved : GUI stuff is a clear example.

Math stuff (the number crunching part, not Roassal or all the nice data visualization tools Pharo has or that it will add to this library) shouldn't be such a burden to be made portable.

If Glorp could do it with external interfaces, network stuff, different datatypes, different client interfaces, various SQL syntax, different behavior on different platforms, etc, why shouldn't we be able to do a *minimal* effort to make this wonderful library dialect-friendly?

I'm not saying Pharoers should have the responsibility to maintain 5 different versions of SciSmalltalk for all other Smalltalk dialects!

All I'm saying is that, whenever possible, could we pick the dialect-neutral version of code instead of deliberately pick something Pharo-specific?

And if that's a given and understood by everyone, the library could get some help from people coding in Dolphin, Squeak, VisualAge, VisualWorks, ObjectStudio & others.

We would all benefit from this if we'd work together and agree upon one thing : keep the code as portable as possible.
 
-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)



From: stepharo <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: Aren't we all Smalltalkers?

Why should we have the burden to maintain it for other dialects?
Then we do not make it divergent for the sake of it.

Stef

Bonjour Serge,

I read all the nonsense about the new name for the SciSmalltalk library on various mailing lists.  I even gave my opinion.

I don't care about the name.  But it seems, between the lines, that this fantastic library from Didier H. Besset (and you and all collaborators) is moving towards a Pharo-centric direction.

I think it would be a really  *big mistake* and *big loss* for Smalltalkers if that's the case !

If a thing like Glorp can be dialect-friendly, why can't we do the same thing for SciSmalltalk ?
--
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