Article about Dolphin Smalltalk

I will be writing an article about Dolphin Smalltalk for the largest
computer magazine in Slovenia. In the article I will also compare it with
some existing development environment, most probably Visual Basic. Since I
don't have much experience with Visual Basic but a lot in various Smalltalks
I would like to hear from people who used both and know what are advantages
and disadvantages of these two environments. Also, what is the most
important to tell about Dolphin from the beginner's perspective? Or, if I
was a VB programmer what would you tell me to convince me Dolphin is better?
Additionaly I would like to hear your suggestions on what to put on the CD
that comes with the magazine. I could put the free Dolphin release on the CD
but that's not what I will talk about in my article. The best would be if
there was a trial version of Dolphin 4.0 but since there is none so I guess
I will have to go with the 2.1. I could also include some goodies and
examples so I would be glad to hear suggestions on those too (if there are
any left for the 2.1...).
Anyway, I wonder if it were possible for ObjectArts to give out some
time-limited codes like we had it in the 4.0 beta programme in order to make
a time limited trial possible?
Another thing would be a list of reference projects or companies where
Dolphin is being used. I know of Zagreb Stock Exchange but don't know about
any other companies using it for serious projects.

Best regards,

David

"David Gorisek" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have been programming with VB for many years for money and only
money. The job market for VBers is limitless.
So why would anybody in their right mind use Smalltalk?

1) For one I find it very addictive. It is one of the few languages
where you can implement code that immediately can be tested and put
into production without stopping the rest of your application.  With
VB you must compile and run your app from scratch. Advantage: Speed of
development.

2) It is a totally open system. I can see the implementation of all
classes. It is an immediate teaching tool. Advantage: Someone can
learn Smalltalk from the pros and also follow the proper style of
coding. Try that with VB.

3) Multiple browsers and workspaces open at the same time. This means
I can jump between code and perform cut and paste and will be relfect
in all the browsers at the same time. Enhances the ability for code
reuse.

4) Smalltalk's languge constructs are simple for anyone to learn.

5) Multithreading. VB does not have "fork" capabilites.

6) No subclassing in VB (although its promised in VB7. But with .NET
it will be incompatible with VB6)

7) Package management. VB does not have such a concept.

8) Runtime reflectivity. You can actually have Smalltalk add and
remove classes and methods at runtime. What other language lets you
access the byte codes generated?

As far as Dolphin I believe it is one of the nicest environments to
work in if you develop with Windows. It is responsive and the
interface feels like Windows.

I think Dolphin's plan of making the best Smalltalk they can for
Windows is its strength. They are not trying to make it work for every
conceivable platform. Just for the most popular one. This means they
can take advantage of all the abilities of the underlying OS and make
it look like the OS. Also pricing makes Smalltalk affordable to the
masses.

If you have any other questions comparing VB to Dolphin please let me
know.


Costas

"David Gorisek" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> I will be writing an article about Dolphin Smalltalk for the largest
> computer magazine in Slovenia. In the article I will also compare it with

I would like to grab a copy of this magazine, could you tell me what
magazine it is (Moj Mikro seemed to be a leading one while I was still
reading them but that was more than decade ago, and a lot of water went by
in the mean time), and which month it will be published?

Thanks,

Davorin Rusevljan

Davorin Rusevljan <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:92vf90$6j4a$[hidden email]...
>
> "David Gorisek" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
> > I will be writing an article about Dolphin Smalltalk for the largest
> > computer magazine in Slovenia. In the article I will also compare it
with
>
> I would like to grab a copy of this magazine, could you tell me what
> magazine it is (Moj Mikro seemed to be a leading one while I was still
> reading them but that was more than decade ago, and a lot of water went by
> in the mean time), and which month it will be published?
>

Yes, it is for the 'Moj Mikro' magazine. I know the editor personally so I
can choose the edition and the scope of the article. I would like to get it
in next month (in the February edition). But before I do it, I would like to
know if it were somehow possible to put a trial edition on the CD that comes
with the magazine. I wouldn't like to put the 2.1 version on the CD because
the differences between 2.1 and 4.0 development environment are quite big.

Best regards,

David

In article <[hidden email]>,
  "David Gorisek" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I will be writing an article about Dolphin Smalltalk for the largest
> computer magazine in Slovenia. In the article I will also compare it
with
> some existing development environment, most probably Visual Basic.
Since I
> don't have much experience with Visual Basic but a lot in various
Smalltalks
> I would like to hear from people who used both and know what are
advantages
> and disadvantages of these two environments.

Smalltalk's strengths:  better able to model complex data, rapid
development, robustness.

Dolphin's strength (over and above the above):  integration with
Windows.

VB's strengths:  GUI painter.

This based on five years of VB and seven years of Smalltalk.

IMHO VB is an excellent choice if
   A) your application is all GUI and little data, and/or
   B) you need to slam something out fast, grab the money, and run
      for the door, without having to worry about maintenance or
      scalability.

For anything else, Smalltalk is a far better choice.

VB represents the ultimate triumph of marketing fluff.  Smalltalk is a
technical tour-de-force.

> Also, what is the most
> important to tell about Dolphin from the beginner's perspective?

The most important thing?  Probably that Smalltalk is different.  It
may take a little time to "get it".  It requires that the brain stretch
to accomodate new ideas.  This is a Good Thing, but as with any growth
some pain may be expected.  If someone is a competent programmer in VB,
or C, or Java, it does not necessarily follow that learning Smalltalk
will be easy.  Learning something new can be very beneficial, and I
think the code I now write in C and VB and <whatever> is better for
having learned Smalltalk.

Good luck with your article.  Have you considered submitting it to
magazines in the U.S. or elsewhere in Europe as well?  I assume Moj
Mikro is published in Slovenian, which means it will be inaccessible
for many of us.
--
Bob Jarvis
Compuware @ Timken

--
Bob Jarvis
Compuware @ Timken


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

For my own projects, I now code almost exclusively in Smalltalk after
years of being a VB programmer at home.  Here's what made me switch:

1) In my experience, VB is a fine language if you need to get something
done "quick 'n dirty".  For programs that require mostly data entry (3
or 4 screens) and minimal data manipulation in the background, then VB
is fine.  However...I've found that for large projects (those with more
than 4 forms and/or those that do intensive data manipulation behind
the scenes) VB is almost impossible to maintain.  Code can get entered
in so many different places that it's difficult to keep track of
without a complicated naming scheme.

Because Smalltalk is fully object oriented, code naturally gets grouped
together under the appropriate object.  It's not always obvious where
that code is, but I find it much easier to find what I'm looking for in
Smalltalk rather than VB.

2) VB's whole design concept is "Draw the user interface
first...everything else will follow from that."  In practice, this
usually means making programming decicions based on how you put
together the interface. This is *not* a good design philosophy.

Smalltalk (especially Dolphin with the whole MVP thing) strongly
encourages you to do this whole process in reverse.  The design concept
with Dolphin is "Build a viable data model first...the UI will follow
after that."  This practice leads to much more thought going into your
program's design rather than just the UI, and that in turn makes
programs much better, more efficient, and usually smaller.  Believe me,
it is *much* easier to make the UI fit the model than to force the
model work with your UI.

3)  One drawback (from a VB programmer's point of view) is that
programming with Smalltalk (IMHO) requires much more thought and
analysis before you begin writing the actual code.  VB programmers get
used to seeing instant results:  Click and drag controls onto a screen,
type in a bit of code, and voila! something you can see.  Smalltalk
requires much more effort.  Let me make it perfectly clear that, as a
computer programmer by trade, this is a *good* thing.  But for the
average home user who just wants to play with a bit of coding,
Smalltalk seems to take a lot more work.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Dean Powell
Edmonton, Canada

In article <[hidden email]>,
  "David Gorisek" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I will be writing an article about Dolphin Smalltalk for the largest
> computer magazine in Slovenia. In the article I will also compare it
with
> some existing development environment, most probably Visual Basic.
Since I
> don't have much experience with Visual Basic but a lot in various
Smalltalks
> I would like to hear from people who used both and know what are
advantages
> and disadvantages of these two environments. Also, what is the most
> important to tell about Dolphin from the beginner's perspective? Or,
if I
> was a VB programmer what would you tell me to convince me Dolphin is
better?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Dean,

> 3)  One drawback (from a VB programmer's point of view) is that
> programming with Smalltalk (IMHO) requires much more thought and
> analysis before you begin writing the actual code.  VB programmers get
> used to seeing instant results:  Click and drag controls onto a screen,
> type in a bit of code, and voila! something you can see.  Smalltalk
> requires much more effort.  Let me make it perfectly clear that, as a
> computer programmer by trade, this is a *good* thing.  But for the
> average home user who just wants to play with a bit of coding,
> Smalltalk seems to take a lot more work.

On the other extreme, one can write some code, test it in a workspace,
inspect the results, and often get meaningful results w/o even having to
create a GUI - talk about quick and easy :)   However, explaining this to a
beginner is a good bit harder than writing and testing the code :(

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]