Autocomplete broken?
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Hi guys.
Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. Doru On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi guys. "Every thing has its own flow"
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I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. Alexandre
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I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste.
Uko On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
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But, are you not always pressing Esc to remove the popup window?
It does not make much sense to have the completion when I have comment in plain english or when I write a number. I have not made a statistic, but with all the keystrokes I am doing in Pharo, only a few of them deserve to have an auto-completion. Alexandre On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste. > > Uko > > On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. >> Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. >> >> Alexandre >> >> Le 26-03-2014 à 17:26, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> a écrit : >> >>> No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi guys. >>> >>> Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? >>> >>> Uko >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Well, as always we think more on the newbies than power users (because power users can always change a setting and add a startup script for having their on setup automated). And is our understanding that newbies prefer to have the autocompletion there by default (not just them, but them for sure).
As Yuri says, most of the modern IDEs have it by default. Now, autocomplete (as everything) can be better… but I think it needs to be there. Esteban On 27 Mar 2014, at 10:55, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > But, are you not always pressing Esc to remove the popup window? > It does not make much sense to have the completion when I have comment in plain english or when I write a number. > > I have not made a statistic, but with all the keystrokes I am doing in Pharo, only a few of them deserve to have an auto-completion. > > Alexandre > > > On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste. >> >> Uko >> >> On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. >>> Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> Le 26-03-2014 à 17:26, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> a écrit : >>> >>>> No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi guys. >>>> >>>> Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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I do not agree with this. As soon as one makes a difference between newbies and power users, then something is wrong. My mother can fully use an iphone, as I do. Both of us find the iphone well designed.
I realize I am here complaining without offering much help. This is just to say that some of my students are directly using Pharo (and not Moose), and the first thing we do is deactivating the automatic auto-completion. Alexandre On Mar 27, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: > Well, as always we think more on the newbies than power users (because power users can always change a setting and add a startup script for having their on setup automated). And is our understanding that newbies prefer to have the autocompletion there by default (not just them, but them for sure). > As Yuri says, most of the modern IDEs have it by default. > > Now, autocomplete (as everything) can be better… but I think it needs to be there. > > Esteban > > On 27 Mar 2014, at 10:55, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> But, are you not always pressing Esc to remove the popup window? >> It does not make much sense to have the completion when I have comment in plain english or when I write a number. >> >> I have not made a statistic, but with all the keystrokes I am doing in Pharo, only a few of them deserve to have an auto-completion. >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste. >>> >>> Uko >>> >>> On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. >>>> Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> Le 26-03-2014 à 17:26, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> a écrit : >>>> >>>>> No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Hi guys. >>>>> >>>>> Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? >>>>> >>>>> Uko >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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On 27 Mar 2014, at 11:20, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > I do not agree with this. As soon as one makes a difference between newbies and power users, then something is wrong. My mother can fully use an iphone, as I do. Both of us find the iphone well designed. iphone and system programming are two different areas of interaction and requires different complexities. Not always the elegancy of one design in one area is directly transferrable to other(s). Just as an example, when you are new to a system you want as much help as you can find, same help that becomes annoying as soon as you are experienced enough to handle the complexity by your self. And like that I can find a lot of other examples. > > I realize I am here complaining without offering much help. This is just to say that some of my students are directly using Pharo (and not Moose), and the first thing we do is deactivating the automatic auto-completion. oh well… agreeing or disagreeing in this area is allowed, of course :) but since is very subjective, it will not produce a direct change, I’m afraid. I can tell you my own personal experience with my students (when I had them) which is opposite to yours… Honestly, UX is a complicated area not studied enough (at least for me)… and any change will satisfy ones and dissatisfy others. Esteban > > Alexandre > > > On Mar 27, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Well, as always we think more on the newbies than power users (because power users can always change a setting and add a startup script for having their on setup automated). And is our understanding that newbies prefer to have the autocompletion there by default (not just them, but them for sure). >> As Yuri says, most of the modern IDEs have it by default. >> >> Now, autocomplete (as everything) can be better… but I think it needs to be there. >> >> Esteban >> >> On 27 Mar 2014, at 10:55, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> But, are you not always pressing Esc to remove the popup window? >>> It does not make much sense to have the completion when I have comment in plain english or when I write a number. >>> >>> I have not made a statistic, but with all the keystrokes I am doing in Pharo, only a few of them deserve to have an auto-completion. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste. >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> >>>> On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. >>>>> Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> Le 26-03-2014 à 17:26, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> a écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. >>>>>> >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi guys. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? >>>>>> >>>>>> Uko >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
I don’t know how I handle the wrong stuff :) I just need autocomplete. I remember when I was programming C++ and using Xcode which provides a lot of autocompletion, and then we on exam we had to use Visual Studio which will has this strange butting dance for autocompletion. I screwed up that exam ))
Uko On 27 Mar 2014, at 14:55, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > But, are you not always pressing Esc to remove the popup window? > It does not make much sense to have the completion when I have comment in plain english or when I write a number. > > I have not made a statistic, but with all the keystrokes I am doing in Pharo, only a few of them deserve to have an auto-completion. > > Alexandre > > > On Mar 27, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I like it always on. In Xcode it’s also always on. I think it’s a matter of taste. >> >> Uko >> >> On 27 Mar 2014, at 00:03, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> I am really surprise to see the automatic completion has not been changed in the standard Pharo. >>> Autocompletion should be on demand, and not always on. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> Le 26-03-2014 à 17:26, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> a écrit : >>> >>>> No. It's just that we disabled the automatic triggering. You can trigger it with TAB. You can also set the preference back from the settings browser. >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi guys. >>>> >>>> Is autocomplete (suggestions) broken in Moose now? >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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I think that we should distinguish between completion in general and the current implementation. I think completion should be there to help, and it should be enabled by default. But at the moment, the widget should be improved. I did not have time to look into making it better and this is why I did not complain much about it. Cheers, Doru On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: I don’t know how I handle the wrong stuff :) I just need autocomplete. I remember when I was programming C++ and using Xcode which provides a lot of autocompletion, and then we on exam we had to use Visual Studio which will has this strange butting dance for autocompletion. I screwed up that exam )) "Every thing has its own flow"
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As far as I know, Pharo 4 should be about UI stuff. So maybe… On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:06, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
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