Baseline/Configuration loading bars

> Hello
>
> I have never paid any attention to following thing, but now I use Pharo to
> teach students object oriented programming and there is one thing that I
> realized how very bad is from user experience perspective: When I am loading
> package with lots of dependencies, like Moose or Seaside, it may take
> multiple minutes (especially on Windows) and those loading bars are there
> half of a time, but half of a time there is nothing, just nothing - it looks
> like finished, but it is in fact still loading and everything is therefore
> sluggish. If I was not sure it is in actually still loading just fine, I
> would try to kill the process and try again. Example which causes such
> loading without much of UI is this one:
>
> Gofer it
>     smalltalkhubUser: 'zeroflag' project: 'Teapot';
>     configuration;
>     loadStable.
> Metacello new
>     repository:
> 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main';
>     configuration: 'Seaside3';
>     version: #'release3.2';
>     load: #('OneClick').
>
> It would be nice to have some loading bar or something like "loading
> packages, please wait..." there at all times until baseline/configuration
> loading is completely done... also some confirming message like
> "ConfigurationOfSeaside3 loaded successfully" would be nice
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>

> Ben,
>
> I took a look at this and Metacell has wrapped the load expressions with a
> MetacelloPlatform>>do:displaying: call that presumably is supposed to show
> the progress bars continuously during a Metacello load, but a check in
> Pharo3.0 shows that the Pharo platform class don't override the default
> implementation.
>
> The original implementation of the method was in the
> Metacello-Platform,pharo package ... which was for Pharo1.0 --- so Metacello
> progress bar display has not been properly functioning since then (about 5
> years) --- and not noticed until now:)
>
> It should be possible to implement that method for Pharo6.0/7.0 and see
> continuous progress bars again ...
>
> Dale
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/Metacello/metacello/blob/master/repository/Metacello-Platform.pharo.package/MetacelloPharoPlatform.class/instance/do.displaying..st
>
>
> On 10/31/17 6:05 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>
> I would guess the problem with doing this pervasively is (IIUC) that
> Configurations are self-contained/self-bootstrapping so each
> Configurationhas its own copy of #load (I've no access to an Image to check
> right now)
> Perhaps it could be a use case for metalinks.  When Configurations are
> loaded, insert a #notify: at the end of certain api methods.
>
> cheers -ben
>
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed!
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Jan Blizničenko <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > I have never paid any attention to following thing, but now I use Pharo
>> > to
>> > teach students object oriented programming and there is one thing that I
>> > realized how very bad is from user experience perspective: When I am
>> > loading
>> > package with lots of dependencies, like Moose or Seaside, it may take
>> > multiple minutes (especially on Windows) and those loading bars are
>> > there
>> > half of a time, but half of a time there is nothing, just nothing - it
>> > looks
>> > like finished, but it is in fact still loading and everything is
>> > therefore
>> > sluggish. If I was not sure it is in actually still loading just fine, I
>> > would try to kill the process and try again. Example which causes such
>> > loading without much of UI is this one:
>> >
>> > Gofer it
>> >     smalltalkhubUser: 'zeroflag' project: 'Teapot';
>> >     configuration;
>> >     loadStable.
>> > Metacello new
>> >     repository:
>> > 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main';
>> >     configuration: 'Seaside3';
>> >     version: #'release3.2';
>> >     load: #('OneClick').
>> >
>> > It would be nice to have some loading bar or something like "loading
>> > packages, please wait..." there at all times until
>> > baseline/configuration
>> > loading is completely done... also some confirming message like
>> > "ConfigurationOfSeaside3 loaded successfully" would be nice
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sent from:
>> > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>> >
>>
>
>

> Hi dale
>
> I'm confused :) what we should do?
> I could not get it (ok I'm a doct waiting room so not a super place to check).
> Stef
>
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Dale Henrichs
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> I took a look at this and Metacell has wrapped the load expressions with a
>> MetacelloPlatform>>do:displaying: call that presumably is supposed to show
>> the progress bars continuously during a Metacello load, but a check in
>> Pharo3.0 shows that the Pharo platform class don't override the default
>> implementation.
>>
>> The original implementation of the method was in the
>> Metacello-Platform,pharo package ... which was for Pharo1.0 --- so Metacello
>> progress bar display has not been properly functioning since then (about 5
>> years) --- and not noticed until now:)
>>
>> It should be possible to implement that method for Pharo6.0/7.0 and see
>> continuous progress bars again ...
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> [1]
>> https://github.com/Metacello/metacello/blob/master/repository/Metacello-Platform.pharo.package/MetacelloPharoPlatform.class/instance/do.displaying..st
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/17 6:05 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>
>> I would guess the problem with doing this pervasively is (IIUC) that
>> Configurations are self-contained/self-bootstrapping so each
>> Configurationhas its own copy of #load (I've no access to an Image to check
>> right now)
>> Perhaps it could be a use case for metalinks.  When Configurations are
>> loaded, insert a #notify: at the end of certain api methods.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Agreed!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Jan Blizničenko <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I have never paid any attention to following thing, but now I use Pharo
>>>> to
>>>> teach students object oriented programming and there is one thing that I
>>>> realized how very bad is from user experience perspective: When I am
>>>> loading
>>>> package with lots of dependencies, like Moose or Seaside, it may take
>>>> multiple minutes (especially on Windows) and those loading bars are
>>>> there
>>>> half of a time, but half of a time there is nothing, just nothing - it
>>>> looks
>>>> like finished, but it is in fact still loading and everything is
>>>> therefore
>>>> sluggish. If I was not sure it is in actually still loading just fine, I
>>>> would try to kill the process and try again. Example which causes such
>>>> loading without much of UI is this one:
>>>>
>>>> Gofer it
>>>>      smalltalkhubUser: 'zeroflag' project: 'Teapot';
>>>>      configuration;
>>>>      loadStable.
>>>> Metacello new
>>>>      repository:
>>>> 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main';
>>>>      configuration: 'Seaside3';
>>>>      version: #'release3.2';
>>>>      load: #('OneClick').
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice to have some loading bar or something like "loading
>>>> packages, please wait..." there at all times until
>>>> baseline/configuration
>>>> loading is completely done... also some confirming message like
>>>> "ConfigurationOfSeaside3 loaded successfully" would be nice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from:
>>>> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>>>
>>

> Cyrille has submitted a bug[1] and I believe that he is taking a crack at a
> fix ...
>
> Personally I am not aware of whether or not
> String>>displayProgressAt:from:to:during: still exists and if not whether or
> not it is the approved api for interacting with progress bars ... I sort of
> assumed that it was dropped because the progress bar API changed, but it may
> have been inadvertently dropped on the floor, since it's absence is not an
> error ... once the correct API is identified, the fix can be merged into the
> master branch for Metacello.
>
> The next step would be to ensure that the latest version of Metacello is
> included in new builds for Pharo6.1/7.0 and I believe that Esteban is
> tackling that bit...There are now 6.1/7.0 tags for Metacello that are
> presumably used by the Pharo build process ...
>
> Dale
>
> [1] https://github.com/Metacello/metacello/issues/466
>
> On 11/02/2017 10:18 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>> Hi dale
>>
>> I'm confused :) what we should do?
>> I could not get it (ok I'm a doct waiting room so not a super place to
>> check).
>> Stef
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Dale Henrichs
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> I took a look at this and Metacell has wrapped the load expressions with
>>> a
>>> MetacelloPlatform>>do:displaying: call that presumably is supposed to
>>> show
>>> the progress bars continuously during a Metacello load, but a check in
>>> Pharo3.0 shows that the Pharo platform class don't override the default
>>> implementation.
>>>
>>> The original implementation of the method was in the
>>> Metacello-Platform,pharo package ... which was for Pharo1.0 --- so
>>> Metacello
>>> progress bar display has not been properly functioning since then (about
>>> 5
>>> years) --- and not noticed until now:)
>>>
>>> It should be possible to implement that method for Pharo6.0/7.0 and see
>>> continuous progress bars again ...
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Metacello/metacello/blob/master/repository/Metacello-Platform.pharo.package/MetacelloPharoPlatform.class/instance/do.displaying..st
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/17 6:05 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>
>>> I would guess the problem with doing this pervasively is (IIUC) that
>>> Configurations are self-contained/self-bootstrapping so each
>>> Configurationhas its own copy of #load (I've no access to an Image to
>>> check
>>> right now)
>>> Perhaps it could be a use case for metalinks.  When Configurations are
>>> loaded, insert a #notify: at the end of certain api methods.
>>>
>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Stephane Ducasse
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Agreed!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Jan Blizničenko <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never paid any attention to following thing, but now I use Pharo
>>>>> to
>>>>> teach students object oriented programming and there is one thing that
>>>>> I
>>>>> realized how very bad is from user experience perspective: When I am
>>>>> loading
>>>>> package with lots of dependencies, like Moose or Seaside, it may take
>>>>> multiple minutes (especially on Windows) and those loading bars are
>>>>> there
>>>>> half of a time, but half of a time there is nothing, just nothing - it
>>>>> looks
>>>>> like finished, but it is in fact still loading and everything is
>>>>> therefore
>>>>> sluggish. If I was not sure it is in actually still loading just fine,
>>>>> I
>>>>> would try to kill the process and try again. Example which causes such
>>>>> loading without much of UI is this one:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gofer it
>>>>>      smalltalkhubUser: 'zeroflag' project: 'Teapot';
>>>>>      configuration;
>>>>>      loadStable.
>>>>> Metacello new
>>>>>      repository:
>>>>> 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Seaside/MetacelloConfigurations/main';
>>>>>      configuration: 'Seaside3';
>>>>>      version: #'release3.2';
>>>>>      load: #('OneClick').
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be nice to have some loading bar or something like "loading
>>>>> packages, please wait..." there at all times until
>>>>> baseline/configuration
>>>>> loading is completely done... also some confirming message like
>>>>> "ConfigurationOfSeaside3 loaded successfully" would be nice
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from:
>>>>> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>>>>
>>>
>
>