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Roland Strasser

Beginner's question ...

Hi,

I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
questions:

a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
just a plain console program?

b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?

Thank you!
Roland.

Uko2

Re: Beginner's question ...

Hi Roland,

Can you be more certain? Is your main goal to interact with a final product because you do not have gui (for example web service). Or you just want to develop some application that can be used only with command line etc...

Cheers.
Uko

Надіслано з iPhone

16 серп. 2013 о 21:33 Roland Strasser <[hidden email]> написав(ла):

>
> Hi,
>
> I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
> program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
> questions:
>
> a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
> just a plain console program?
>
> b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?
>
> Thank you!
> Roland.
>
>

jgfoster

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

Hi Roland,

Welcome to Smalltalk. As someone who started with BASIC in the early 1970s, I have seen a few changes in the past 40 years.

As you have discovered, the typical Smalltalk experience has a heavy emphasis on a GUI. As to deployment, it is generally more difficult to take things out (browsers, tools, etc.) in Smalltalk than in other environments where there is a more rigid distinction between development and deployment. The first thing to note is that any Pharo image can be deployed with command line arguments that disable the GUI (-vm-display-null and -vm-sound-null). Sometimes we just let the other "stuff" come along for the ride and get ignored. Why go to the trouble to remove it?

Next, there is GNU Smalltalk (http://smalltalk.gnu.org/), "The Smalltalk for those who can type"! Check it out.

Finally, GemStone/S (http://gemtalksystems.com/index.php/products/gemstones/) is available as a command-line Smalltalk with no native GUI.

Let us know what you want your console application to do and we can give more advice.

James

On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Roland Strasser <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

Hi Roland,

On 16 Aug 2013, at 20:33, Roland Strasser <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, it is perfectly possible to use Pharo Smalltalk to write command line tools. It even works pretty well.

But you definitively should use the IDE/GUI during interactive development or you'll miss out on a lot !

Sven

--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
Proudly supporting Pharo
http://pharo.org
http://association.pharo.org
http://consortium.pharo.org

Roland Strasser

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

On 08/16/2013 08:33 PM, Roland Strasser wrote:

Hello everybody,

Primarilly I just want to catch some experiences with SmallTalk - which
so far I find really exceptional. For doing that I just want to use a
simple input-/output window (could be a 'transcript'?), for something
like that:

input value
calculate
return value

If a gave this image to somebody else, I find it necessary to just give
the "program" itself, without all the rest of the image (and ide).

Thanks,
Roland

--
Mag. Roland Strasser

Uko2

Re: Beginner's question ...

Hi,

to make you more familiar with existing pharo applications you can check out:

http://www.drgeo.eu/

Also Pharo is used for web development. You can follow Sven's tutorial to make some simple web app:

http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/build-and-deploy-1st-webapp/

Cheers.

Uko

Надіслано з iPhone

17 серп. 2013 о 08:32 Roland Strasser <[hidden email]> написав(ла):

On 08/16/2013 08:33 PM, Roland Strasser wrote:

Hi,

I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
questions:

a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
just a plain console program?

b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?

Thank you!
Roland.

Hello everybody,

Primarilly I just want to catch some experiences with SmallTalk - which
so far I find really exceptional. For doing that I just want to use a
simple input-/output window (could be a 'transcript'?), for something
like that:

input value
calculate
return value

If a gave this image to somebody else, I find it necessary to just give
the "program" itself, without all the rest of the image (and ide).

Thanks,
Roland

--
Mag. Roland Strasser

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

Hi roland

You can run pharo with a UI using the headless mode. in that case you can implement a simple read eval loop
that read from standard input and write on stdout.
You can also use the -eval command line parameter to get a value of a message

Now you can also define a simple ui and disable all the tools. This requires a bit more
practice. So let us know. There is also the user manager package that let you control some behavior.

Stef

>> I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
>> program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
>> questions:
>>
>> a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
>> just a plain console program?
>>
>> b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?
>>
>> Thank you!
>> Roland.
>>
>>
>>
> Hello everybody,
>
> Primarilly I just want to catch some experiences with SmallTalk - which
> so far I find really exceptional. For doing that I just want to use a
> simple input-/output window (could be a 'transcript'?), for something
> like that:
>
> input value
> calculate
> return value
>
> If a gave this image to somebody else, I find it necessary to just give
> the "program" itself, without all the rest of the image (and ide).
>
> Thanks,
> Roland
>
>
>
> --
> Mag. Roland Strasser
>

Roland Strasser

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Uko2

On 08/17/2013 07:54 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:

> Hi,
>
> to make you more familiar with existing pharo applications you can check out:
> http://www.drgeo.eu/
> Also Pharo is used for web development. You can follow Sven's tutorial to make some simple web app:
> http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/build-and-deploy-1st-webapp/
>
> Cheers.
> Uko
>
>
> Надіслано з iPhone
>
> 17 серп. 2013 о 08:32 Roland Strasser <[hidden email]> написав(ла):
>
>> On 08/16/2013 08:33 PM, Roland Strasser wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
>>> program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
>>> questions:
>>>
>>> a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
>>> just a plain console program?
>>>
>>> b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> Roland.
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Primarilly I just want to catch some experiences with SmallTalk - which
>> so far I find really exceptional. For doing that I just want to use a
>> simple input-/output window (could be a 'transcript'?), for something
>> like that:
>>
>> input value
>> calculate
>> return value
>>
>> If a gave this image to somebody else, I find it necessary to just give
>> the "program" itself, without all the rest of the image (and ide).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roland
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mag. Roland Strasser
>>
>

Thank you,

Dr. Geo is a full blown-up application. So far I do not intend to write
soemething like that. Morely I intend to use as less GUI as
necessary/possible. Just simple input-/output in a console window or
something like that.

But maybe BASIC or Pascal is more suitable for that?
Roland.

--
Mag. Roland Strasser

Roland Strasser

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

On 08/17/2013 08:09 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Hi roland
>
> You can run pharo with a UI using the headless mode. in that case you can implement a simple read eval loop
> that read from standard input and write on stdout.
> You can also use the -eval command line parameter to get a value of a message
>
> Now you can also define a simple ui and disable all the tools. This requires a bit more
> practice. So let us know. There is also the user manager package that let you control some behavior.
>
> Stef
>
>>> I have programming experiences with BASIC compilers. I would like to
>>> program in a Smalltalk environment; but I have the following newbie's
>>> questions:
>>>
>>> a) Can I deploy an image without all the browsers and other "stuff" -
>>> just a plain console program?
>>>
>>> b) How is it possible to write a console program without gui etc.?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> Roland.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Primarilly I just want to catch some experiences with SmallTalk - which
>> so far I find really exceptional. For doing that I just want to use a
>> simple input-/output window (could be a 'transcript'?), for something
>> like that:
>>
>> input value
>> calculate
>> return value
>>
>> If a gave this image to somebody else, I find it necessary to just give
>> the "program" itself, without all the rest of the image (and ide).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roland
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mag. Roland Strasser
>>
>
>
>

Thanks,

is there any tutorial how to write a GUI window with menues, dialogues
etc? It would be very helpful, because Smalltalk is VERY different to
other languages (as you know of course).

Thanks
Roland.

--
Mag. Roland Strasser

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

Thank you,

Dr. Geo is a full blown-up application. So far I do not intend to write
soemething like that. Morely I intend to use as less GUI as
necessary/possible. Just simple input-/output in a console window or
something like that.

But maybe BASIC or Pascal is more suitable for that?
Roland.

I would not see why :)

You define a package with classes and then use --eval to invoke your class and a message

pharo yourimage.image --eval '1+3'

prints 4 and this is exactly doing that

read this chapter even if it is more general

ZeroConf.pdf (418K) Download Attachment

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Beginner's question ...

In reply to this post by Roland Strasser

There is a tutorial but we should finish it using Spec
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W67
We are planning to write a complete one but benjamin should come back from holiday.

Note that the difference is not between Smalltalk and X, Y Z
the difference is between graphical frameworks: for example in VisualWorks you write application GUI
differently than in VisualAge or Pharo.

Stef