Berlin 2016-12-19
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack
It is really sad that these things happen, that so many innocent people are killed and hurt. It makes me even more sad that I seem to be getting used to this, that should not be the case, at all. Sven |
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Indeed, immensely sad. Humanity is under regression.
When you see that in Mali they destroyed the oldest world library. What sadden me the most is that in case of attacks in France, these attacks were made by brainwashed french citezen against french citizen contrary to what ugly "politician" would like that we think. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack > > It is really sad that these things happen, that so many innocent people > are killed and hurt. It makes me even more sad that I seem to be getting > used to this, that should not be the case, at all. > > Sven > > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
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Regression? Consider that 1 human on 5 is under the poverty line vs 1 on 2 not so many years ago and that a large percentage of the human population has been schooled in elementary matters (again, not the case not so far in the past). That is a massive improvement! Despite terrorist casualties, which compared to flu or car crashes, or even toddlers shooting relatives with guns is two orders of magnitude less, we live in the safest environment we have ever had. Not a regression at all. http://www.fayard.fr/histoire-du-terrorisme-9782213687308 has a pretty useful background on their logic. Terrorism is the weapon of the weak in terms of fighting force, otherwise they would engage in a full on war to conquer the territory. The psychological impact is just out of proportions vs the number of casualties. I got rammed into by a truck last week and could have been killed. That's just a mundane occurence that statistically kills more people than any terrorist attack would. Ref: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_de_la_route_en_France "Et depuis 1945, les chiffres sont aussi édifiants, car il faut parler d'au moins 500 000 morts, soit l'équivalent d'un grand conflit majeur, ou l'équivalent des pertes humaines subies en France lors de la Seconde Guerre mondiale." Not to mention domestic accidents: "Chaque année en France, près de 20 000 personnes décèdent dans un accident domestique, c'est trois fois plus que sur la route."" Plus de la moitié des accidents de la vie courante concerne des enfants de 0 à 16 ans. Et malgré les progrès accomplis depuis les années 80, c'est pour eux une des principales causes de décès prématurés. Produits ménagers ou médicaments accessibles, chaise haute non sanglée, table à langer instable. en quelques minutes, la vie peut tourner au drame. Il faut savoir que chez les tout-petits, c'est à l'intérieur de la maison que se situe le danger" Best course of action is to keep on trucking and be a productive element of society. No matter what. YOLO after all. Phil On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:44 PM, stepharong <[hidden email]> wrote: Indeed, immensely sad. Humanity is under regression. |
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I completely agree with you Phil, the real tragedy is this Berlin tragedy will be the excuse to funnel billion of euros into a war that will bring zero results , billions that could be invested not only to save 30 or even a thousand lives but millions of lives. To talk about regression is to not be aware of how extremely lucky and privileged we are to live in a time that experts call "the long peace" . Never in the recorded human history there were so few wars worldwide and as much poverty and it continuously gets better even in this time of global economic crisis.
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I don't think this list is the proper place for discussing politics. So can we please not do it?
thanks, Norbert
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I don't see anywhere me mentioning my support for a political party or ideology or even mention politics at all.
You must have a very abstract definition of "politics". Funny thing is that you could not quote the most inappropriate case because I am completely against any form of politics including anarchism. So please don't make assumptions about people who you know very little about. Accuse me that my reply is not Pharo development based , guilty as charged, but then so is not the topic of the discussion. On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 at 12:37, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Well it is definitely not about Pharo and it is politics whic is (from Greek: πολιτικός politikos, definition "of, for, or relating to citizens") Mark On 22/12/2016 10:48, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > I don't see anywhere me mentioning my support for a political party or > ideology or even mention politics at all. > > You must have a very abstract definition of "politics". > > Funny thing is that you could not quote the most inappropriate case > because I am completely against any form of politics including anarchism. > > So please don't make assumptions about people who you know very little > about. > > Accuse me that my reply is not Pharo development based , guilty as > charged, but then so is not the topic of the discussion. > On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 at 12:37, Norbert Hartl > <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > I don't think this list is the proper place for discussing politics. > So can we please not do it? > > thanks, > > Norbert > >> Am 22.12.2016 um 11:20 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis >> <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>>: >> >> I completely agree with you Phil, the real tragedy is this Berlin >> tragedy will be the excuse to funnel billion of euros into a war >> that will bring zero results , billions that could be invested not >> only to save 30 or even a thousand lives but millions of lives. >> >> To talk about regression is to not be aware of how extremely lucky >> and privileged we are to live in a time that experts call "the >> long peace" . Never in the recorded human history there were so >> few wars worldwide and as much poverty and it continuously gets >> better even in this time of global economic crisis. >> >> As a matter of fact the biggest problems we face are the result of >> this long peace and prosperity . Top ones being over population >> and climate change. >> >> In both cases of positives and negative we experience the profound >> effects of exponential growth. This crazy curve of constant growth >> that start small and much later increases in insane rates which >> has massive positive and negative effects. Its a crazy ride and >> will only get massively more crazy soon enough, especially now >> with the coming of the AI revolution. >> >> I wonder the role Pharo will play in all this :) >> >> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:56 AM >> [hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]> >> <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> Regression? Consider that 1 human on 5 is under the poverty >> line vs 1 on 2 not so many years ago and that a large >> percentage of the human population has been schooled in >> elementary matters (again, not the case not so far in the past). >> >> That is a massive improvement! >> >> Despite terrorist casualties, which compared to flu or car >> crashes, or even toddlers shooting relatives with guns is two >> orders of magnitude less, we live in the safest environment we >> have ever had. Not a regression at all. >> >> http://www.fayard.fr/histoire-du-terrorisme-9782213687308 has >> a pretty useful background on their logic. Terrorism is the >> weapon of the weak in terms of fighting force, otherwise they >> would engage in a full on war to conquer the territory. >> >> The psychological impact is just out of proportions vs the >> number of casualties. >> >> I got rammed into by a truck last week and could have been >> killed. That's just a mundane occurence that statistically >> kills more people than any terrorist attack would. >> >> Ref: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_de_la_route_en_France >> "Et depuis 1945, les chiffres sont aussi édifiants, car il >> faut parler d'au moins 500 000 morts, soit l'équivalent d'un >> grand conflit majeur, ou l'équivalent des pertes humaines >> subies en France lors de la Seconde Guerre mondiale." >> >> Not to mention domestic accidents: "Chaque année en France, >> près de 20 000 personnes décèdent dans un accident domestique, >> c'est trois fois plus que sur la route."" Plus de la moitié >> des accidents de la vie courante concerne des enfants de 0 à >> 16 ans. Et malgré les progrès accomplis depuis les années 80, >> c'est pour eux une des principales causes de décès prématurés. >> Produits ménagers ou médicaments accessibles, chaise haute non >> sanglée, table à langer instable. en quelques minutes, la vie >> peut tourner au drame. Il faut savoir que chez les >> tout-petits, c'est à l'intérieur de la maison que se situe le >> danger" >> >> Best course of action is to keep on trucking and be a >> productive element of society. No matter what. YOLO after all. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:44 PM, stepharong >> <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> Indeed, immensely sad. Humanity is under regression. >> When you see that in Mali they destroyed the oldest world >> library. >> What sadden me the most is that in case of attacks in >> France, these attacks were made by brainwashed french >> citezen against french citizen contrary to what ugly >> "politician" would like that we think. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack >> >> It is really sad that these things happen, that so >> many innocent people are killed and hurt. It makes me >> even more sad that I seem to be getting used to this, >> that should not be the case, at all. >> >> Sven >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > -- Mark |
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:20:36AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> To talk about regression is to not be aware of how extremely lucky and > privileged we are to live in a time that experts call "the long peace" . > Never in the recorded human history there were so few wars worldwide and as > much poverty and it continuously gets better even in this time of global > economic crisis. Global Peace Index assesment for 2016 just came out, I recommend going through it. http://static.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/GPI%202016%20Report_2.pdf In other news: "Terrorism is also at an all-time high, battle deaths from conflict are at a 25 year high, and the number of refugees and displaced people are at a level not seen in sixty years" Nevertheless, Europe still remains the most peaceful region (certainly makes it easier to have biased perception... I now also live in the 6th most peaceful country :)) > I wonder the role Pharo will play in all this :) Maybe next year instead of 100 dead pages, the GPI can be released as interactive Pharo image that would aid policymakers (and everyone) with understanding the data, relations between it etc. :) (Bret Victor anyone?) > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:56 AM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > Regression? Consider that 1 human on 5 is under the poverty line vs 1 on 2 > > not so many years ago and that a large percentage of the human population > > has been schooled in elementary matters (again, not the case not so far in > > the past). As linked above, Europe certainly does regress in some aspects. For example the attacks (albeit rare) already created enough fear that people are willingly giving up their rights and liberties in exchange of the promise of security (e.g. UK's IP bill that treats every citizen as assumed criminal, increased data collection and surveillance in one state after another, etc.; (ECJ ruled the UK's bill unlawful & not democratic, but unlikely it will have any impact). > > otherwise they would engage in a full on war to conquer the territory. ... there is a full on war in their homeland > > > > The psychological impact is just out of proportions vs the number of > > casualties. precisely, so you don't need to do that daily or weekly (like in middle east / northern Africa) > > I got rammed into by a truck last week and could have been killed. That's > > just a mundane occurence that statistically kills more people than any > > terrorist attack would. There is a difference between violent death and willingly engaging with risky situations. > > Best course of action is to keep on trucking I think the moral of your story should be: we should finally stop trucking and give that job to machines. :) Peter |
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:48:28AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> I don't see anywhere me mentioning my support for a political party or > ideology or even mention politics at all. > > You must have a very abstract definition of "politics". Rather you have a very narrow definition of politics. > > Funny thing is that you could not quote the most inappropriate case because > I am completely against any form of politics including anarchism. You cannot not have politics. > > I don't think this list is the proper place for discussing politics. So > > can we please not do it? Sorry. Peter |
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In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:21 PM Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:20:36AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: |
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In reply to this post by NorbertHartl
This is perfectly relevant to Pharo, given we have Grafoscopio http://mutabit.com/grafoscopio/index.en.html and have the tooling necessary to produce the maps with a toolchain owned and made by the people. That we should move this to Pharo-Users, yep. At the bottom of the Grafoscopio page: lots of cases Phil On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
Truth be told, terrorists are no match for the Snow White people. I am more afraid of groups like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas than of terrorists. First, these groups are better organized, have unlimited funding, and generally walk the talk. And do not need to make that constant noise about their business, as they are woven into the very business fabric of society. When terrorists will clash with those business interests, terrorists will be dealt with very quickly. Back to Pharoing. Phil On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Please, can we keep this kind discussion off of this board. If you want to discuss then please email each other directly or find another venue. Brad Selfridge
Brad Selfridge
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In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
On 21/12/16 17:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack > > It is really sad that these things happen, that so many innocent > people are killed and hurt. It makes me even more sad that I seem to > be getting used to this, that should not be the case, at all. Monday evening I was dancing tango at a nice milonga in the south of Berlin, as dancers started getting lots of messages asking if they were ok. That christmas market was the one where I was only three weeks ago with a few colleagues to say goodby to one of us leaving the project. On tuesday morning we started a two day company hackathon, just one block away from there. The truck was still at the place of the tragedy. Somehow we managed to focus on the things we could influence and achieve: working together in creating something (in Pharo). Sad, and determined to not give in to fear or anger Stephan |
Re: Berlin 2016-12-19
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> On 22 Dec 2016, at 20:21, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 21/12/16 17:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack >> >> It is really sad that these things happen, that so many innocent >> people are killed and hurt. It makes me even more sad that I seem to >> be getting used to this, that should not be the case, at all. > > Monday evening I was dancing tango at a nice milonga in the south of > Berlin, as dancers started getting lots of messages asking if they were > ok. That christmas market was the one where I was only three weeks > ago with a few colleagues to say goodby to one of us leaving the project. On tuesday morning we started a two day company hackathon, just one block away from there. The truck was still at the place of the tragedy. Somehow we managed to focus on the things we could influence and achieve: working together in creating something (in Pharo). > > Sad, and determined to not give in to fear or anger > Stephan That is a beautiful reaction ! |
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Indeed, beautiful is indeed a good word to describe this!
Doru > On Dec 22, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> On 22 Dec 2016, at 20:21, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> On 21/12/16 17:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_attack >>> >>> It is really sad that these things happen, that so many innocent >>> people are killed and hurt. It makes me even more sad that I seem to >>> be getting used to this, that should not be the case, at all. >> >> Monday evening I was dancing tango at a nice milonga in the south of >> Berlin, as dancers started getting lots of messages asking if they were >> ok. That christmas market was the one where I was only three weeks >> ago with a few colleagues to say goodby to one of us leaving the project. On tuesday morning we started a two day company hackathon, just one block away from there. The truck was still at the place of the tragedy. Somehow we managed to focus on the things we could influence and achieve: working together in creating something (in Pharo). >> >> Sad, and determined to not give in to fear or anger >> Stephan > > That is a beautiful reaction ! > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" |
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