Blueprint

I am a bit stuck in a pre-Blueprint world. So I was having a look at it.

I loaded up the current, release of pier, and it is very clean and ready
to be styled. I miss the tree view, has it gone because it doesnt fit in
the layout?

Blueprint looks cool for some applications. I have one site which has a
fairly fixed layout, so blueprint appears to me to be an ideal solution
for that, but not, I fear for pier in general.

This appears to me to be a better fit, for general blogish/corporate sites.

http://www.contentwithstyle.co.uk/Articles/17/a-css-framework/

best regards

Keith


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Hello Lukas,

I am looking at the latest Pier,

There is a fair bit of stuff I am not understanding... but I am getting
there.

Could you explain how the PRDocumentsWidget is supposed to work.

I dont really like the settings for environment and css in every
page/structure. I think its untidy.

I would prefer that a page looks up the heirarchy for...

one_of_my_ancestors/environment/layout
one_of_my_ancestors/environment/css

and there are other settings that could be set this way... e.g.
the page that is shown to a user when he hits a forbidden page.

one_of_my_ancestors/environment/forbidden

thanks

Keith


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>
> I would prefer that a page looks up the heirarchy for...
>
> one_of_my_ancestors/environment/layout
> one_of_my_ancestors/environment/css
>
>  
I have implemented this scheme in

pieraddons/Pier-Jetsam-Environment
 
It was much easier to do with the current code, than when I last looked
at it a couple of years back.

I think that there are some advantages to doing it this way, so I hope
you will take a look.

One being that it is possible to put administrators instructions in the
"environment page". So having created a layout, there is a place to put
"design intent" information and to coach your users as to how to use the
design you have made. A notable feature of existing successful CMS is
that they have lots of docs to coach the users and admins through using
the system. Pier is somewhat bare in this regard.

Secondly this establishes a pattern, that "settings" is not the only
place to put setting/parameters. I can write a plugin which can have
heirarchically inherited settings, scoped to my part of the tree,
without having to put a new setting field into every page. The plugin
can look to an environment/settingsforplugin page.

Thirdly, environments can have environments, so that when you are
editing an environment layout and you mess it up, you can continue to
work, because you will not have broken the environments/environment.  
(this was possible under the old scheme too and worked well)

btw great work

Keith



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But.... I have just hit a snag...

Having an environment for administrators to edit, with an environment
within it with higher level permissions that the admins arent supposed
to see, makes it really easy to accidentally set the permissions
recursively down the tree so that administrators can see everything.

I find it difficult to keep track of permissions in my sites so..

I solved this by having separate trees for each level of permissions,
and cross linking between them.
Having the #environment settings preference facilitates this approach...
so I think a compromise might be keep just the #environment setting.

Keith


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> I loaded up the current, release of pier, and it is very clean and  
> ready
> to be styled.

You can either build on top of blueprint (I know of many Pier pages  
that have done exactly this) or remove it an use your own things  
(there are quite a couple of pages here as well).

> I miss the tree view, has it gone because it doesnt fit in
> the layout?

The tree is still there as a widget. So you can just add it. I removed  
it from the default layout, as its usability is very limited and I  
think it should be generally avoided. In my opinion the tree is only  
good to manage and organize the site, therefor I often add it for  
admins only.

I don't see much difference, except that this CSS framework is a bit  
at a different leven. It provides 6 different layouts and seems to me  
a bit limited. However there is nothing that prevents you from using  
it in Pier: remove blueprintcss, add contentwithstyle, done.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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> Could you explain how the PRDocumentsWidget is supposed to work.

This is for multiple editing areas, so for example you have a sidebar  
with news or additional links. The PRDocumentsWidget is added to the  
environment, where you can also set the default content. On the page  
you can then edit the extra documents as part of the normal edit  
operation.

> I dont really like the settings for environment and css in every
> page/structure. I think its untidy.

It is not 100% necessarily, but it avoids a great deal of duplication.  
Like this I can easily have all the design at a different place and  
reuse it from everywhere.

> I would prefer that a page looks up the heirarchy for...
>
> one_of_my_ancestors/environment/layout
> one_of_my_ancestors/environment/css

You can still do this, if you want.

> and there are other settings that could be set this way... e.g.
> the page that is shown to a user when he hits a forbidden page.
>
> one_of_my_ancestors/environment/forbidden

If you use PUMain you get a longin window.

Lukas

--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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> Having an environment for administrators to edit, with an environment
> within it with higher level permissions that the admins arent supposed
> to see, makes it really easy to accidentally set the permissions
> recursively down the tree so that administrators can see everything.

Yes, that's another reason why I put my environments at a different  
place.

My layout always looks somehow like this:

root (owner: editor)
        system (owner: admin)
                user
                groups
                system
        environment (owner: designer)
                parts
                components
                templates
                        template1
                        template2
                        ...
        page1
        page2

I usually don't put the CSS into Pier itself.

Of course Pier should be open to allow a different layout.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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Just to give a further example as to how this can be used...

PRFrameAdmin class comment explains:
====
This frame displays the site using the layout in /environment/admin,
rather than the default.

This allows a second seaside application to be set up which shows an
admin interface to the whole site.
This application can be configured to need authorization before viewing,
while the main site is public.

Thus, two (or potentially more) levels of security can be configured
without using Pier-Security.

===

Keith


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That's interesting. So you essentially have two entry points to your  
site. For example

        www.seaside.st

for the normal visitors and

        admin.seaside.st

for an administrative interface to the same site?

Lukas


On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:09 , Keith Hodges wrote:

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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Lukas Renggli wrote: Exactly! A whole additional dimension. It was a eureka moment for me I
think this could be very useful.

Keith


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I know this is pretty old, but I have been thinking along these lines
myself, since I didn't really want to have a login button on the
normal site.

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Keith Hodges <[hidden email]> wrote:
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