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Holger Kleinsorgen
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Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Holger Kleinsorgen
Hello,

has anyone managed to draw with Cairo on a pixmap on OS X?

The follow raises an error:

    (Pixmap extent: 16@16) newCairoSurfaceWhile: [ : cairoSurface | ]

Unhandled exception: Message not understood: #nsBitmap
ObjectiveCRuntime2(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:withArguments:
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:
optimized [] in CairoGraphics.QuartzSurface>>initVMRasterSurface:extent:
...

The object that does not understand #nsBitmap is a STPixmap.

Tested with 7.9 and 7.10, with the CairoGraphics parcel (7.9 - 2) and the package from the public repository (7.9 - 12)
Steven Kelly
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Steven Kelly
http://www.parcplace.net/list/vw-dev/1307/msg00022.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:35 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps
>
> Hello,
>
> has anyone managed to draw with Cairo on a pixmap on OS X?
>
> The follow raises an error:
>
>     (Pixmap extent: 16@16) newCairoSurfaceWhile: [ : cairoSurface | ]
>
> Unhandled exception: Message not understood: #nsBitmap
> ObjectiveCRuntime2(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:
>
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:withArgum

> ents:
> ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:
> optimized [] in
> CairoGraphics.QuartzSurface>>initVMRasterSurface:extent:
> ...
>
> The object that does not understand #nsBitmap is a STPixmap.
>
> Tested with 7.9 and 7.10, with the CairoGraphics parcel (7.9 - 2) and
> the
> package from the public repository (7.9 - 12)
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cairo-OS-X-and-
> pixmaps-tp4714184.html
> Sent from the VisualWorks mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

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Christophe Gouyen-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Christophe Gouyen-2
Hello,

Any news regarding this issue ?

I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...

Note : I don't have a vw dev account so I can't follow the link posted before...

Thanks,
Christophe

Le 21/10/2013 13:15, Steven Kelly a écrit :
http://www.parcplace.net/list/vw-dev/1307/msg00022.html


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Hello,

has anyone managed to draw with Cairo on a pixmap on OS X?

The follow raises an error:

    (Pixmap extent: 16@16) newCairoSurfaceWhile: [ : cairoSurface | ]

Unhandled exception: Message not understood: #nsBitmap
ObjectiveCRuntime2(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:


ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:withArgum

ents:
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:
optimized [] in
CairoGraphics.QuartzSurface>>initVMRasterSurface:extent:
...

The object that does not understand #nsBitmap is a STPixmap.

Tested with 7.9 and 7.10, with the CairoGraphics parcel (7.9 - 2) and
the
package from the public repository (7.9 - 12)




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Maarten Mostert-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Maarten Mostert-2
In reply to this post by Holger Kleinsorgen
<base href="x-msg://79/">That is nice to say Steve, but the situation is quite annoying here isn't it.
Basically 7.10 is to skip hoping that 7.11 fixes Cairo, but then we don't know whether to continue to write for Cairo in the first place?
Currently the only thing I haven't really used is the Win32PrintingSurface but I am getting there with time, but then …  should I go there ? 
If after 6 years I need to go back to the old Flash Gordon interface I will have to rewrite all my widgets here and that would mean adding a lot of code to avoid the flashing which basically is less with more instead of more with less.
Now that Cincom finally started something on the GUI, they must know by now that Flash Gordon makes things bloody complicated to do and difficult to maintain.
I seriously hacked the DatSetView recently but it took me 2 months starring at incomprehensible code to add some functionality, and I still have no idea how the thing works really as it keeps on turning circles about copies of graphics contexts here there and everywhere driving you crazy.
Now that they start dropping Cairo and only just began a new research project that would mean that they are inline with the time schedule for the GUI where the issue has been picked-up seriously a decade later …

@+Maarten,

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.

Albert Camus


Le 8 nov. 2013 à 13:54, "Steven Kelly" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

I’d like to reply to Cristophe’s vwnc message below, but I don’t want to pass information that is under the vw-dev NDA, so perhaps someone from Cincom could reply to vwnc? It could also be a good idea to send the Cairo survey there.
 
Cheers,
Steve
 
From: [hidden email] [mailto:vwnc-[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christophe Gouyen
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 1:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps
 
Hello,

Any news regarding this issue ?

I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...

Note : I don't have a vw dev account so I can't follow the link posted before...

Thanks,
Christophe

Le 21/10/2013 13:15, Steven Kelly a écrit :
http://www.parcplace.net/list/vw-dev/1307/msg00022.html
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps
 
Hello,
 
has anyone managed to draw with Cairo on a pixmap on OS X?
 
The follow raises an error:
 
    (Pixmap extent: 16@16) newCairoSurfaceWhile: [ : cairoSurface | ]
 
Unhandled exception: Message not understood: #nsBitmap
ObjectiveCRuntime2(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:
 
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:withArgum
ents:
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:
optimized [] in
CairoGraphics.QuartzSurface>>initVMRasterSurface:extent:
...
 
The object that does not understand #nsBitmap is a STPixmap.
 
Tested with 7.9 and 7.10, with the CairoGraphics parcel (7.9 - 2) and
the
package from the public repository (7.9 - 12)
 
 
 
 
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cairo-OS-X-and-
pixmaps-tp4714184.html
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DIAZOL Tél : +33 (0)2 98 33 61 04
 


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Arden-8
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Arden-8
In reply to this post by Christophe Gouyen-2
Hi Christophe;

We have plans to markedly improve our gui graphics capability over the next couple product cycles.

Much of this will be from what we have learned with our CairoGraphics work.

We think the users of our CairoGraphics work will like and appreciate the direction we take.

More details will be available as the work is developed.  VWDev participants will have first access to the new work.

Regards
   Arden Thomas
   Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Christophe Gouyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Any news regarding this issue ?

I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...

Note : I don't have a vw dev account so I can't follow the link posted before...

Thanks,
Christophe

Le 21/10/2013 13:15, Steven Kelly a écrit :
http://www.parcplace.net/list/vw-dev/1307/msg00022.html


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Hello,

has anyone managed to draw with Cairo on a pixmap on OS X?

The follow raises an error:

    (Pixmap extent: 16@16) newCairoSurfaceWhile: [ : cairoSurface | ]

Unhandled exception: Message not understood: #nsBitmap
ObjectiveCRuntime2(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:


ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:withArgum

ents:
ObjectiveCRuntime2(AbstractObjectiveCRuntime)>>object:perform:
optimized [] in
CairoGraphics.QuartzSurface>>initVMRasterSurface:extent:
...

The object that does not understand #nsBitmap is a STPixmap.

Tested with 7.9 and 7.10, with the CairoGraphics parcel (7.9 - 2) and
the
package from the public repository (7.9 - 12)




--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cairo-OS-X-and-
pixmaps-tp4714184.html
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[hidden email]
DIAZOL Tél : <a href="tel:%2B33%20%280%292%2098%2033%2061%2004" value="+33298336104" target="_blank">+33 (0)2 98 33 61 04

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jarober
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

jarober
Well, I sure hope the 2 monitor/different resolution issue is close to the top of the list for OS X issues :)

On Nov 8, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Holger;
>
> We intend for OSX to get the new solution, so we are unlikely to get resource for the Cairo fix.
>
> For OSX we also have other necessary work like compiler upgrades and other work for newer OSX releases.
>
> Many of our gui team developers use OSX so it is not ignored.
>
> hth
>
> Arden
>
> Arden Thomas
> Cincom Smalltalk Product manager
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Holger Kleinsorgen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's pretty vague and far away. Might be interesting, but it still doesn't answer the question:
>> will there be a fix for Cairo on OS X or not?
>>
>> Am 08.11.2013 17:43, schrieb Arden Thomas:
>>> Hi Christophe;
>>>
>>> We have plans to markedly improve our gui graphics capability over the next couple product cycles.
>>>
>>> Much of this will be from what we have learned with our CairoGraphics work.
>>>
>>> We think the users of our CairoGraphics work will like and appreciate the direction we take.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

James Robertson
http://www.jarober.com
[hidden email]




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Holger Kleinsorgen
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Holger Kleinsorgen
In reply to this post by Christophe Gouyen-2
Christophe Gouyen-2 wrote
Hello,

Any news regarding this issue ?

I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is
really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...
Hello,

I’ve published a quick&dirty patch in the public repository (CairoGraphics-OSXFix).
It does not work well with CairoGraphics-Wrappers (window contents is constantly flipped). It might not work in other places. I’ve only tested it with the Akamaru demo.

There’s another patch, CairoGraphics-64BitFix, for 64 bit versions of Linux & Windows
Christophe Gouyen-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Christophe Gouyen-2
Thanks Holger, I've just tried your patch, I had to add the cairo library path in the LibCoreGraphics class definition as some of the cairo functions used are not linked in the VM. It works (as I don't have #nsBitmap errors anymore) but some of my components are not displayed. I'll try to investigate further when I'll have some more time.

I've developed a full stack based on cairo, everything is displayed via a CairoScreenGraphicsContext  and our components make a heavy use of cairo primitives for displaying. At the time it was the only way for us to get a native OS-X runtime and drop the X11 runtime...

It's a good thing that cincom finally started to address GUI issues (especially on OS-X) but for us dropping cairo is not an option... I think we're not alone in this case... During all those years since Pollock was dropped (and hardly no GUI improvements came from Cincom) we've came with our own GUI fixes, look policy adapted for tactile screens, cairo & pango font rendering for X11, heavily patched dataset... I've spend a lot of time in these instead of adding domain functionalities to our apps.

I was investigating the cost of migrating to VW 7.10 for our annual release, this time I was figuring it was worth the effort (Skins, new HTTP server), I managed to get some proper windows and linux versions but without cairo on OS-X we'll probably stuck with 7.7.1 again this time.

Christophe

Le 10/11/2013 19:41, Holger Kleinsorgen a écrit :
Christophe Gouyen-2 wrote

Hello,

Any news regarding this issue ?

I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is
really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...

Hello,

I’ve published a quick&dirty patch in the public repository
(CairoGraphics-OSXFix). 
It does not work well with CairoGraphics-Wrappers (window contents is
constantly flipped). It might not work in other places. I’ve only tested it
with the Akamaru demo.

There’s another patch, CairoGraphics-64BitFix, for 64 bit versions of Linux
& Windows 



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View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cairo-OS-X-and-pixmaps-tp4714184p4720928.html
Sent from the VisualWorks mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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DIAZOL Tél : +33 (0)2 98 33 61 04

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Steven Kelly
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Steven Kelly

Similarly many thanks to Holger from us too. We don’t yet have everything else ported to 7.10 yet, so I couldn’t try the fixes directly. I did try loading the code into our current 7.7.1 image with 7.9 VM on OS X, to see if the fix is backwards compatible. I didn’t get any errors like Christophe mentioned, that would require adding the Cairo library path to LibCoreGraphics, but I also didn’t get any components displayed (Cairoized GF/ST). Given the large number of variables and out-of-spec situation here, this is no problem; I’ll check again in 7.10.

 

Our case is very similar to Christophe’s in terms of our strategic position. 7.8 and to a lesser extent 7.9 gave us too many VM crashes to be usable in production, so we’ve stayed in 7.7.1. I’m halfway through upgrading to 7.10 (mainly for long term support rather than anything new in there), and this surprising problem and lack of support for Cairo on OS X is a significant setback. The VW product manager, Arden Thomas, kindly set up a call with me, and whilst I can’t tell you the details of what he said, I’m more optimistic now, and I did push for Holger’s OS X and 64-bit fixes to be reviewed and if possible integrated into the Cairo trunk. I suggest others with similar concerns contact Arden too.

 

All the best,

Steve

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christophe Gouyen
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:11 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

 

Thanks Holger, I've just tried your patch, I had to add the cairo library path in the LibCoreGraphics class definition as some of the cairo functions used are not linked in the VM. It works (as I don't have #nsBitmap errors anymore) but some of my components are not displayed. I'll try to investigate further when I'll have some more time.

I've developed a full stack based on cairo, everything is displayed via a CairoScreenGraphicsContext  and our components make a heavy use of cairo primitives for displaying. At the time it was the only way for us to get a native OS-X runtime and drop the X11 runtime...

It's a good thing that cincom finally started to address GUI issues (especially on OS-X) but for us dropping cairo is not an option... I think we're not alone in this case... During all those years since Pollock was dropped (and hardly no GUI improvements came from Cincom) we've came with our own GUI fixes, look policy adapted for tactile screens, cairo & pango font rendering for X11, heavily patched dataset... I've spend a lot of time in these instead of adding domain functionalities to our apps.

I was investigating the cost of migrating to VW 7.10 for our annual release, this time I was figuring it was worth the effort (Skins, new HTTP server), I managed to get some proper windows and linux versions but without cairo on OS-X we'll probably stuck with 7.7.1 again this time.

Christophe

Le 10/11/2013 19:41, Holger Kleinsorgen a écrit :

Christophe Gouyen-2 wrote
Hello,
 
Any news regarding this issue ?
 
I've just finished porting our apps from VW 7.7.1 to VW 7.10 and this is
really blocking for us as we're making a big use of cairo...
 
Hello,
 
I’ve published a quick&dirty patch in the public repository
(CairoGraphics-OSXFix). 
It does not work well with CairoGraphics-Wrappers (window contents is
constantly flipped). It might not work in other places. I’ve only tested it
with the Akamaru demo.
 
There’s another patch, CairoGraphics-64BitFix, for 64 bit versions of Linux
& Windows 
 
 
 
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Christophe Gouyen
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DIAZOL Tél : +33 (0)2 98 33 61 04

 


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Holger Kleinsorgen
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Holger Kleinsorgen
In reply to this post by Christophe Gouyen-2
Christophe Gouyen-2 wrote
It works (as I don't have
#nsBitmap errors anymore) but some of my components are not displayed.
I'll try to investigate further when I'll have some more time.
If you're using CairoGraphics-Wrappers, then you'll have to patch the following method:

CairoGraphicsContext>>render: aVisualComponent
   self newCairoContextWhile: [ : newContext |  aVisualComponent renderOn: self ]

It's important to do all Cairo drawing inside #newCairoContextWhile:, because the patch uses the underlying context (CGContext) of the pixmap/window.
Christophe Gouyen-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Christophe Gouyen-2
I'm not using CairoGraphics-Wrappers but all my cairo drawing is done inside newCairoContextWhile: calls...

Le 12/11/2013 14:04, Holger Kleinsorgen a écrit :
Christophe Gouyen-2 wrote

It works (as I don't have
#nsBitmap errors anymore) but some of my components are not displayed.
I'll try to investigate further when I'll have some more time.

If you're using CairoGraphics-Wrappers, then you'll have to patch the
following method:

CairoGraphicsContext>>render: aVisualComponent 
   self newCairoContextWhile: [ : newContext |  aVisualComponent renderOn:
self ]

It's important to do all Cairo drawing inside #newCairoContextWhile:,
because the patch uses the underlying context (CGContext) of the
pixmap/window. 




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Carl Gundel-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Carl Gundel-2
I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel

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Maarten Mostert
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Maarten Mostert

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.
Thanks,
-Carl Gundel

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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Carl Gundel-2
No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.
Thanks,
-Carl Gundel

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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Maarten Mostert-2
No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.
@+Maarten,

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :

No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.
Thanks,
-Carl Gundel

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Steven Kelly
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Steven Kelly

Only 5 out of 6 users have browser support for SVG (Windows XP’s IE8 from 2009 and Android 2.3.7 from 2011 don’t have it). SVG output also works fine in headless VW, so I imagine Carl is talking about bitmaps. Normal methods of creating those in a headless image fail, IIRC because you can’t get a Pixmap. Directly writing the file bytes or maybe directly building an Image could of course work, but Cairo or similar external libraries have been a common solution.

 

Steve

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Maarten Mostert
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

 

No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.

@+Maarten,

 

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :



No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel


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Carl Gundel-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Carl Gundel-2
In reply to this post by Maarten Mostert-2
Ok.  :-)  So my point is that VW should not be built in such a way that it cannot draw graphics in memory when it is run as a headless image.  There is no justifiable reason that I can think of that a headless web application should not be able to draw business graphs (or something else) using the same graphics classes used by a GUI application.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel



On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Maarten Mostert <[hidden email]> wrote:
No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.
@+Maarten,

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :

No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.
Thanks,
-Carl Gundel

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Terry Raymond
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Terry Raymond

Agreed, particularly when you are running a webserver.

 

However, it is also relatively simple to open a headful image in a headless

mode, just do not open any windows.

 

Terry

 

===========================================================

Terry Raymond

Crafted Smalltalk

80 Lazywood Ln.

Tiverton, RI  02878

(401) 624-4517      [hidden email]

===========================================================

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carl Gundel
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:59 AM
To: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

 

Ok.  :-)  So my point is that VW should not be built in such a way that it cannot draw graphics in memory when it is run as a headless image.  There is no justifiable reason that I can think of that a headless web application should not be able to draw business graphs (or something else) using the same graphics classes used by a GUI application.

 

Thanks,

 

-Carl Gundel

 

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Maarten Mostert <[hidden email]> wrote:

No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.

@+Maarten,

 

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :



No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel


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Carl Gundel-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Carl Gundel-2
I don't remember it working that way.  I only became aware of the problem when a friend was running a copy of my Seaside based Run BASIC web appserver on this Linux box without a window manager.  It was going fine until he tried to draw some graphics, and then it blew up.
 
Looks like I'm going to need to experiment some more.
 
Thanks,
 
-Carl
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Terry Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agreed, particularly when you are running a webserver.

 

However, it is also relatively simple to open a headful image in a headless

mode, just do not open any windows.

 

Terry

 

===========================================================

Terry Raymond

Crafted Smalltalk

80 Lazywood Ln.

Tiverton, RI  02878

<a href="tel:%28401%29%20624-4517" target="_blank" value="+14016244517">(401) 624-4517      [hidden email]

===========================================================

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carl Gundel
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:59 AM
To: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

 

Ok.  :-)  So my point is that VW should not be built in such a way that it cannot draw graphics in memory when it is run as a headless image.  There is no justifiable reason that I can think of that a headless web application should not be able to draw business graphs (or something else) using the same graphics classes used by a GUI application.

 

Thanks,

 

-Carl Gundel

 

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Maarten Mostert <[hidden email]> wrote:

No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.

@+Maarten,

 

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :



No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel


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Maarten Mostert-2
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Re: Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

Maarten Mostert-2
The following builder tool scripts will sort of do things that way. They will also build a 64bit image from 32bit work, as it almost impossible to find a 32bit hosting solution these days.

@+Maarten,




Le 18 nov. 2013 à 20:17, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :

I don't remember it working that way.  I only became aware of the problem when a friend was running a copy of my Seaside based Run BASIC web appserver on this Linux box without a window manager.  It was going fine until he tried to draw some graphics, and then it blew up.
 
Looks like I'm going to need to experiment some more.
 
Thanks,
 
-Carl
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Terry Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agreed, particularly when you are running a webserver.

 

However, it is also relatively simple to open a headful image in a headless

mode, just do not open any windows.

 

Terry

 

===========================================================

Terry Raymond

Crafted Smalltalk

80 Lazywood Ln.

Tiverton, RI  02878

<a href="tel:%28401%29%20624-4517" target="_blank" value="+14016244517">(401) 624-4517      [hidden email]

===========================================================

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carl Gundel
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:59 AM
To: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Cairo, OS X and pixmaps

 

Ok.  :-)  So my point is that VW should not be built in such a way that it cannot draw graphics in memory when it is run as a headless image.  There is no justifiable reason that I can think of that a headless web application should not be able to draw business graphs (or something else) using the same graphics classes used by a GUI application.

 

Thanks,

 

-Carl Gundel

 

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Maarten Mostert <[hidden email]> wrote:

No the thing in Cairo is that you can draw to a number of sources, to your screen to an image a pdf file or an SVG file.  For a headless web app making SVG files might be a good deal.

@+Maarten,

 

Le 18 nov. 2013 à 12:27, Carl Gundel <[hidden email]> a écrit :



No, I don't think that I am.  Could you explain to me why VW should not be able to draw graphics in a headless image and write them to a file?

 

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're meaning SVG

 

> "Carl Gundel" <[hidden email]> |

I'm not currently using Cairo at all, but I just want to add again that for my Seaside based app (and I would think for many web applications), it is important to be able to draw graphics even in a headless image so that the graphics can dynamically generated and save to disk so they can be served up by the webserver.  So whatever this new graphics effort is, I hope if will make graphics possible with headless images.

Thanks,

-Carl Gundel


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http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

 

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