Can I use Projects in Pharo?

I think we should not reinvent the wheel in Pharo. I mean, Morphic is nice, although I would like to have native windows so that I can use my Mac expose features. But no, I have only one window. Then, I have something similar but implemented in Pharo using Mac + narrows.

Then, you can have more than one workspace in the OS, why we need to implement the same in Pharo ?

I also have tons of image, and each image (or more than one) for a project. Why don't you use your own OS virtual workspaces and spread you different images over the different workspaces?  that's easier than Squeak Projects. And maybe faster and better supported.

The ONLY problem is what people said about updating issues in all images. But, :

- In Pharo we have a good package management system now (Metacello). If you use it correctly, you can define all your project dependencies (even working in a core or dev image). So you should be able to load your project in any image without any problem.

- We release images quite frequently, much more than other dialects/languages. So...usually you don't have to wait too much to get a new image with the fixed issue.

- How many times you find an issue that affects all your projects?  I don't think this is very common. Usually, when I find a bug or a problem, is not "too" core in the sense that only affects me in a particular place, but not in all my other work.

Cheers

Mariano



_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

I think we should not reinvent the wheel in Pharo. I mean, Morphic is nice, although I would like to have native windows so that I can use my Mac expose features. But no, I have only one window. Then, I have something similar but implemented in Pharo using Mac + narrows.

Then, you can have more than one workspace in the OS, why we need to implement the same in Pharo ?

I also have tons of image, and each image (or more than one) for a project.  Why don't you use your own OS virtual workspaces and spread you different images over the different workspaces?  that's easier than Squeak Projects.  And maybe faster and better supported.

Agree .... mind you I don't use spaces :)

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

The ONLY problem is what people said about updating issues in all images.  But, :

- In Pharo we have a good package management system now (Metacello). If you use it correctly, you can define all your project dependencies (even working in a core or dev image). So you should be able to load your project in any image without any problem.

Yep, I already mentioned that in my first reply here

Thanks for all the great feedback!  It's great to discuss because it makes me think about what's really important and why...

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

I think we should not reinvent the wheel in Pharo. I mean, Morphic is nice,
although I would like to have native windows so that I can use my Mac expose
features. But no, I have only one window.

I secretly pray for a world where the OS/application paradigm disappears like T-rex in a meteor shower ;-) and I do a lot of cross-platform work (Windows and Mac mostly), so relying on OS features doesn't work for me.

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

 Then, I have something similar but
implemented in Pharo using Mac + narrows.

Do you mean the window cycling within Pharo?  That's not all that similar!  It still has totally (logically) unrelated windows fighting for screen space.  There's no way to bring up the *set* of windows related to task A, and then back to B.

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

I also have tons of image, and each image (or more than one) for a project.
Why don't you use your own OS virtual workspaces and spread you different
images over the different workspaces?  that's easier than Squeak Projects.
And maybe faster and better supported.

This seems to come down to vision and work habits.  My vision is to use one image for everything, where all my data is available to all other data, and I can explore interesting relationships between (seemingly) unrelated bits.  Using many images, to me, is a giant step back toward existing mainstream options.  Plus, anything we do in Pharo is infinitely user customizable and fixable - not so with OS features.  For example, I have exactly three options for the space-switching shortcut on the Mac - wow, thanks for all the options!

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

- In Pharo we have a good package management system now (Metacello). If you
use it correctly, you can define all your project dependencies (even working
in a core or dev image). So you should be able to load your project in any
image without any problem.

Yes, definitely!  Metacello is great for sharing and deploying, but again, using one system for everything is one of the key reasons I came to the Squeak/Pharo world - if I wanted everything separate, there is Mac software for each task that probably (due to maturity and market) does each better.

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

- We release images quite frequently, much more than other
dialects/languages. So...usually you don't have to wait too much to get a
new image with the fixed issue.

[gasp] complain and wait until my issue is fixed!!!  I can't imagine it ;-)  When I find an issue, if I can, I fix it myself and move on with my work.

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote

- How many times you find an issue that affects all your projects?  I don't
think this is very common. Usually, when I find a bug or a problem, is not
"too" core in the sense that only affects me in a particular place, but not
in all my other work.

Often enough with the tools.  Two quick examples:
* while using SSpec, I've found and fixed various bugs, e.g. in the test runner, which effected all the projects I'm working on simultaneously.  I didn't want to stop what I was doing, upload the project, write a Metacello configuration for it, and install it in X other images, and I didn't have to because I only had one image.
* while working with the monticello browser, every time I wanted to add a "directory" repository (which I do frequently), I had to start searching from the default directory, even though all my repos are in the same parent folder.  So I added a setting for it and kept working.

Summary: For me, the separate image approach is a hack to simulate a missing feature, with tradeoffs that don't work for the way I do.

Cheers,
Sean

On 3 June 2010 10:24, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: +1

when i first run the squeak image, and found the projects, i thought,
that i could
write the code and break anything in one project, and then return to
another one, and everything will work as
if nothing happens. Bummer.

As i understood, this is a 'morphic projects' - i.e. the separate
morphic world where you could
place the morphs and arrange them in any way you like.
But the thing is, that in such form its not very userful to me ,
because in my understanding, the project
is something more than just being able to save the position &
placement of various morphs on desktop.
Using a projects in a fashion like multiple morphic desktops is might
be a userful,
but then, its naming is too vagure/ambiguous. I think it should be
renamed to MorphicProject,
because as i noted before, if something having a 'Project' name, then
it should provide the way
how i could completely separate one project from another one :)


Just my 2c.




--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Lukas,

I am glad that it works for you, but it strikes me as a very poor approach.  I prefer to have all of my code in one place so that additions and fixes apply to and can be tested with everything of interest to me.  That said, I can easily leave w/o Squeak projects, especially given how buggy Stef has found them to be.

Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lukas Renggli
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:50 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?

I have my different "projects" in different images. That works perfectly.

Lukas

On 2 June 2010 08:46, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:


--
Lukas Renggli
www.lukas-renggli.ch

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project