Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?

We do not use it for main development. I implemented a very simple ST compiler in 2009. It's by far not so advanced as Amber. You can use it by loading the module lively.SmalltalkParser (module('lively.SmalltalkParser').load();). See this demo world for more info: http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-fun.xhtml

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andy Burnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

As I was digging around the code - trying to find SortedCollection - I noticed references to a Smalltalk parser.  Does this work? If so, how do I invoke it?  

Cheers

Andy

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Hi Lorenzo,

It's great to know that I am not alone :-)

Let's find out, from Robert, how far we can get with the current ST implementation, and the possibility of incorporating Amber. 

Cheers

Andy

On 25 Jul 2012, at 09:26, Lorenzo Schiavina <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Andy,

 

I am in the same situation as you: I am very proficient in ST so, please keep me informed about your projects and consider me as an other resource for any kind of projects.

 

Lorenzo

 

 

---

Da: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Andy Burnett
Inviato: mercoledì 25 luglio 2012 15.13
A: Robert Krahn
Cc: lively-kernel
Oggetto: Re: [lively-kernel] Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?

 

Wow! Robert that is absolutely fantastic.

 

I don't have anything against javascript, but being able to program in Smalltalk makes me so happy :-)

 

OK, a couple of questions:

1. Is ir feasible for me to develop using Smalltalk, i.e. can I save my code? If so, do I save the smalltalk, or the generated javascript
2. Just in very broad terms, would it be possible to include Amber, or is it way too difficult?

Cheers

Andy

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Robert Krahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

We do not use it for main development. I implemented a very simple ST compiler in 2009. It's by far not so advanced as Amber. You can use it by loading the module lively.SmalltalkParser (module('lively.SmalltalkParser').load();). See this demo world for more info: http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-fun.xhtml

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andy Burnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

As I was digging around the code - trying to find SortedCollection - I noticed references to a Smalltalk parser.  Does this work? If so, how do I invoke it?  

 

Cheers

Andy

 

_______________________________________________
lively-kernel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel

 

 

I'm not very familiar with Amber but what I understand from the documentation is that it tries to be very close to Pharo, providing most of Pharo's API as well as a class browser that uses a node server for compilation / saving Smalltalk / JS code.

For developing applications in Lively we adopted a more object-centric approach that has the PartsBin as its central point [1] and does not rely on writing code in classes. Developing an application basically means to combine existing objects, change their look and behavior. This is done interactively using different tools and combines visual interaction with writing code. See [2] for an example.

Technically there is no problem to load Amber Smalltalk in Lively and write Amber code that manipulates Lively worlds / objects. A proper integration, however, requires more work. Tools like the ObjectEditor and System Code browser need to support the Smalltalk syntax in order to allow using them with the usual process. Of course, you can just develop Smalltalk code interactively in a workspaces [3] but this won't give you the real "Lively experience".

In the end it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to write a conventional web app in Smalltalk you are probably better off using just Amber. If you want to use Lively's GUI as well as the PartsBin concept with Smalltalk then a proper integration makes sense (tool support, debugging support, etc) and Amber might not be the best choice as Lively comes with its own API and object system. A possible step brought up by Dan is to create some kind of automatic Smalltalk view that would convert JS code into Smalltalk when you browse it in the ObjectEditor, for example. At this point we do not plan this kind of integration. However, if you want to start this kind of project, you can be sure that we do very welcome it and I would try to personally support it.

[1] http://hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/LinckeKrahnIngallsRoederHirschfeld_2012_TheLivelyPartsBinACloudBasedRepositoryForCollaborativeDevelopmentOfActiveWebContent_IEEE.pdf

[2] http://lively-kernel.org/other/how-to-create-a-comment-recorder.mov

[3] http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-bookmarklets.xhtml

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Andy Burnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Lorenzo,

It's great to know that I am not alone :-)

Let's find out, from Robert, how far we can get with the current ST implementation, and the possibility of incorporating Amber. 

Cheers

Andy

On 25 Jul 2012, at 09:26, Lorenzo Schiavina <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Andy,

 

I am in the same situation as you: I am very proficient in ST so, please keep me informed about your projects and consider me as an other resource for any kind of projects.

 

Lorenzo

 

 

---

Da: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Andy Burnett
Inviato: mercoledì 25 luglio 2012 15.13
A: Robert Krahn
Cc: lively-kernel
Oggetto: Re: [lively-kernel] Can we write LK code in Smalltalk?

 

Wow! Robert that is absolutely fantastic.

 

I don't have anything against javascript, but being able to program in Smalltalk makes me so happy :-)

 

OK, a couple of questions:

1. Is ir feasible for me to develop using Smalltalk, i.e. can I save my code? If so, do I save the smalltalk, or the generated javascript
2. Just in very broad terms, would it be possible to include Amber, or is it way too difficult?

Cheers

Andy

 

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Robert Krahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

We do not use it for main development. I implemented a very simple ST compiler in 2009. It's by far not so advanced as Amber. You can use it by loading the module lively.SmalltalkParser (module('lively.SmalltalkParser').load();). See this demo world for more info: http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/users/robertkrahn/smalltalk-fun.xhtml

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andy Burnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

As I was digging around the code - trying to find SortedCollection - I noticed references to a Smalltalk parser.  Does this work? If so, how do I invoke it?  

 

Cheers

Andy

 

_______________________________________________
lively-kernel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel