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Samuel S. Shuster-5

Change Sets

Dear Friends,

As you know, we are hard at work on the next release : 7.9, and even though we're not done, thoughts of what's next are starting to dance in my mind.

One of the things we've been looking at here in the Code Management/Store team is speed, and we have seeming endless ideas and plans to improve it.

Sometimes though, an idea hits that isn't just an automatic "Put That On The Plan" because it could affect our customers.

Here is the idea:

Remove the Change Set behavior (aka NamedChangeSet) from Base VisualWorks and make it a loadable option.

The speed up is this: Every change we make to the system is duplicated in three places:

1) Package change sets
2) XMainChangeSet
3) The general image ChangeSet system (NamedChangeSets)

Now, we already know that #2 isn't used, and _never_ was, so we already have plans to remove it.

For the Named ChangeSet system though, would you mind if it wasn't part of the base system?

Already the Change Set tools are no longer part of the launcher menus.

Note, if we do this, it will be a loadable Parcel, that when loaded would automatically create a "Default" change set with everything in the system or optionally, just empty.

The upside to not having it if you aren't using it, is that all those change objects would no longer just be in your image, usually doing nothing for most users.

Comments?

And So It Goes
Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
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Jon Paynter-2

Re: Change Sets

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Samuel S. Shuster <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Friends,

As you know, we are hard at work on the next release : 7.9, and even though we're not done, thoughts of what's next are starting to dance in my mind.

One of the things we've been looking at here in the Code Management/Store team is speed, and we have seeming endless ideas and plans to improve it.

Sometimes though, an idea hits that isn't just an automatic "Put That On The Plan" because it could affect our customers.

Here is the idea:

Remove the Change Set behavior (aka NamedChangeSet) from Base VisualWorks and make it a loadable option.

The speed up is this: Every change we make to the system is duplicated in three places:

1) Package change sets
2) XMainChangeSet
3) The general image ChangeSet system (NamedChangeSets)

Now, we already know that #2 isn't used, and _never_ was, so we already have plans to remove it.

For the Named ChangeSet system though, would you mind if it wasn't part of the base system?

Already the Change Set tools are no longer part of the launcher menus.

Note, if we do this, it will be a loadable Parcel, that when loaded would automatically create a "Default" change set with everything in the system or optionally, just empty.

The upside to not having it if you aren't using it, is that all those change objects would no longer just be in your image, usually doing nothing for most users.

Comments?

Speedups are always good.

from my point of view - so long as I can still "recover last changes" after my image crashes, it matters not. Ive never used a named change set, so no opinions on that one.

And while your at it, if there was an easy (or easier) way to separate workspace level do-its from other ones, like a class shape change, or method category move. This will make things much simpler when doing a recovery.

my $0.02.

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Dave Stevenson-3

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by Samuel S. Shuster-5

I use named change sets very infrequently, but I'd hate to have to go hunting for it when I want it. Why not keep the capability in the image, but instead of defaulting to 'Default', default to nil, so it's effectively off unless I've selected one?

Dave Stevenson
[hidden email]

From: Samuel S. Shuster <[hidden email]>
To: NC VWNC List <[hidden email]>; VWDEV List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, September 29, 2011 3:46:21 PM
Subject: [vwnc] Change Sets

Dear Friends,

As you know, we are hard at work on the next release : 7.9, and even though we're not done, thoughts of what's next are starting to dance in my mind.

One of the things we've been looking at here in the Code Management/Store team is speed, and we have seeming endless ideas and plans to improve it.

Sometimes though, an idea hits that isn't just an automatic "Put That On The Plan" because it could affect our customers.

Here is the idea:

    Remove the Change Set behavior (aka NamedChangeSet) from Base VisualWorks and make it a loadable option.

The speed up is this: Every change we make to the system is duplicated in three places:

    1) Package change sets
    2) XMainChangeSet
    3) The general image ChangeSet system (NamedChangeSets)

Now, we already know that #2 isn't used, and _never_ was, so we already have plans to remove it.

For the Named ChangeSet system though, would you mind if it wasn't part of the base system?

Already the Change Set tools are no longer part of the launcher menus.

Note, if we do this, it will be a loadable Parcel, that when loaded would automatically create a "Default" change set with everything in the system or optionally, just empty.

The upside to not having it if you aren't using it, is that all those change objects would no longer just be in your image, usually doing nothing for most users.

Comments?

And So It Goes
Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Samuel S. Shuster-5

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by Jon Paynter-2

Jon:

from my point of view - so long as I can still "recover last changes" after my image crashes, it matters not. Ive never used a named change set, so no opinions on that one.

This brings up a point brought up elsewhere about this:

On the main launcher menu, there is the "Change List" menu option. This reads the .cha file, and is not related to "Named" change sets at all.

In fact, the Change Set option I am talking about is hard to get to since 7.7.1 at least. Since at least then, it has been removed from the Status Bar of the launcher.

And So It Goes

Sames

______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]

VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project

Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Wallen, David

Re: Change Sets

I use named change sets a lot, typically to generate a file-out of a short series of changes that I’m not ready to publish, and don’t want to lose. These can be filed into other images, etc. If necessary, I’ll load the required parcel. Or, Dave’s idea of having it disabled by default sounds good.

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:04 PM
To: Jon Paynter
Cc: NC VWNC List; VWDEV List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Change Sets

Jon:

from my point of view - so long as I can still "recover last changes" after my image crashes, it matters not. Ive never used a named change set, so no opinions on that one.

This brings up a point brought up elsewhere about this:

On the main launcher menu, there is the "Change List" menu option. This reads the .cha file, and is not related to "Named" change sets at all.

In fact, the Change Set option I am talking about is hard to get to since 7.7.1 at least. Since at least then, it has been removed from the Status Bar of the launcher.

And So It Goes

Sames

______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]

VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project

Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Dave Stevenson-3

Re: Change Sets

Hey Dave,

You reminded me why I haven't used named change sets in a while. We've added some items to the launcher's Store menu. One will open a new RB on each dirty package in the image. A variant will open a new RB for each dirty package, along with a change list next to each RB, showing the changes for that package (with show conflicts already turned on). This leaves me in a perfect state to publish all the changes I've made so far, without having to hunt down said changes.

But the menu item that most closely serves the needs of your scenario is one that brings up a choose directory dialog, then generates a <packageName>.st file in the selected folder for each dirty package, where each .st file contains the changes for it's package.

This works best if one is careful not to mix different tasks in the same image. For me, each task gets its own folder, and each folder gets the dev image and any other documents associated with the task. But if I'm working on multiple enhancements or bug fixes in the same image, there's no way to easily separate the changes of tasks that happen to touch some of the same packages.

Still, I don't think I'm done with named change sets for good.

Dave Stevenson
[hidden email]

From: "Wallen, David" <[hidden email]>
To: NC VWNC List <[hidden email]>
Cc: VWDEV List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, September 29, 2011 5:27:24 PM
Subject: RE: [vwnc] Change Sets

Jon:

from my point of view - so long as I can still "recover last changes" after my image crashes, it matters not. Ive never used a named change set, so no opinions on that one.

This brings up a point brought up elsewhere about this:

On the main launcher menu, there is the "Change List" menu option. This reads the .cha file, and is not related to "Named" change sets at all.

In fact, the Change Set option I am talking about is hard to get to since 7.7.1 at least. Since at least then, it has been removed from the Status Bar of the launcher.

And So It Goes

Sames

______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]

VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project

Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

jarober

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by Wallen, David

I used to do that, but then I realized that I could accomplish the same thing a whole lot easier with a personal repository using SQLLite3.

On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:27 PM, Wallen, David wrote:

I use named change sets a lot, typically to generate a file-out of a short series of changes that I’m not ready to publish, and don’t want to lose. These can be filed into other images, etc. If necessary, I’ll load the required parcel. Or, Dave’s idea of having it disabled by default sounds good.

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:04 PM
To: Jon Paynter
Cc: NC VWNC List; VWDEV List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Change Sets

Jon:

from my point of view - so long as I can still "recover last changes" after my image crashes, it matters not. Ive never used a named change set, so no opinions on that one.

This brings up a point brought up elsewhere about this:

On the main launcher menu, there is the "Change List" menu option. This reads the .cha file, and is not related to "Named" change sets at all.

In fact, the Change Set option I am talking about is hard to get to since 7.7.1 at least. Since at least then, it has been removed from the Status Bar of the launcher.

And So It Goes
Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

James Robertson

http://www.jarober.com

[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
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Steven Kelly

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by Samuel S. Shuster-5

Despite being ancient, I never got into change sets, so I won't miss
them. Speeding up loading would be great.

@Jon: You can already filter out do-its from the Change List, just
select one and check the 'type' box on the right, then you can remove
them all.

Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
> Sent: 29. syyskuuta 2011 23:46
> To: NC VWNC List; VWDEV List
> Subject: [vwnc] Change Sets
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> As you know, we are hard at work on the next release : 7.9, and even
> though we're not done, thoughts of what's next are starting to dance

> my mind.
>
> One of the things we've been looking at here in the Code
> Management/Store team is speed, and we have seeming endless ideas and
> plans to improve it.
>
> Sometimes though, an idea hits that isn't just an automatic "Put That
> On The Plan" because it could affect our customers.
>
> Here is the idea:
>
> Remove the Change Set behavior (aka NamedChangeSet) from
> Base VisualWorks and make it a loadable option.
>
> The speed up is this: Every change we make to the system is duplicated
> in three places:
>
> 1) Package change sets
> 2) XMainChangeSet
> 3) The general image ChangeSet system (NamedChangeSets)
>
> Now, we already know that #2 isn't used, and _never_ was, so we

already
> have plans to remove it.
>
> For the Named ChangeSet system though, would you mind if it wasn't
part

> of the base system?
>
> Already the Change Set tools are no longer part of the launcher menus.
>
> Note, if we do this, it will be a loadable Parcel, that when loaded
> would automatically create a "Default" change set with everything in
> the system or optionally, just empty.
>
> The upside to not having it if you aren't using it, is that all those
> change objects would no longer just be in your image, usually doing
> nothing for most users.
>
> Comments?
>
> And So It Goes
> Sames
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Samuel S. Shuster [|]
> VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
> Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Mark Plas

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by Samuel S. Shuster-5

Hi,

We don't use change sets so they can be removed.

What kind of speed up can be expected with the change sets being removed and in which areas will it be visible?

Thanks,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: donderdag 29 september 2011 22:46
To: NC VWNC List; VWDEV List
Subject: [vwnc] Change Sets

Dear Friends,

As you know, we are hard at work on the next release : 7.9, and even though we're not done, thoughts of what's next are starting to dance in my mind.

One of the things we've been looking at here in the Code Management/Store team is speed, and we have seeming endless ideas and plans to improve it.

Sometimes though, an idea hits that isn't just an automatic "Put That On The Plan" because it could affect our customers.

Here is the idea:

Remove the Change Set behavior (aka NamedChangeSet) from Base VisualWorks and make it a loadable option.

The speed up is this: Every change we make to the system is duplicated in three places:

1) Package change sets
2) XMainChangeSet
3) The general image ChangeSet system (NamedChangeSets)

Now, we already know that #2 isn't used, and _never_ was, so we already have plans to remove it.

For the Named ChangeSet system though, would you mind if it wasn't part of the base system?

Already the Change Set tools are no longer part of the launcher menus.

Note, if we do this, it will be a loadable Parcel, that when loaded would automatically create a "Default" change set with everything in the system or optionally, just empty.

The upside to not having it if you aren't using it, is that all those change objects would no longer just be in your image, usually doing nothing for most users.

Comments?

And So It Goes
Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

swcwork

Re: Change Sets

In reply to this post by jarober

Re Use of a personal repository, can you point at a more elaborate explanation / example / how-to ?

Steve Cline