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Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

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Peter Uhnak

Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

Hi,

currently to open a Playground via shortcut one has to type <cmd>+o+w, that's because it used to open Workspace.

However since it now opens Playground the shortcut is no longer appropriate.

So can we change it to <cmd>+o+p?

(This shortcut is currently occupied by Monticello Browser, but that can be movd to <cmd>+o+m which is free.)

You could argue that people are used to this shortcut, however that will not be true for newcommers, who will just see it as random naming (which it currently is).

Peter

Nicolai Hess-3-2

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

2015-11-11 10:45 GMT+01:00 Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

currently to open a Playground via shortcut one has to type <cmd>+o+w, that's because it used to open Workspace.
However since it now opens Playground the shortcut is no longer appropriate.

So can we change it to <cmd>+o+p?
(This shortcut is currently occupied by Monticello Browser, but that can be movd to <cmd>+o+m which is free.)

cmd+o+m would be

ctrl+o ctrl+m on windows, but ctrl+m does not work yet on windows.

You could argue that people are used to this shortcut, however that will not be true for newcommers, who will just see it as random naming (which it currently is).

Peter

Tudor Girba-2

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

I actually think we should disable those shortcuts.

The reason is that they “pollute" the global shortcut space: for example, you can now not use Cmd+o for any custom action in your own window, and that is less than ideal.

The alternative is to use Spotter to spawn windows. The interesting thing there is that you do not need shortcuts for every specific windows because you can use regular search. For example, opening Playground is: Shift+Enter, p, Enter

Cheers,
Doru

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2015-11-11 10:45 GMT+01:00 Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> currently to open a Playground via shortcut one has to type <cmd>+o+w, that's because it used to open Workspace.
> However since it now opens Playground the shortcut is no longer appropriate.
>
> So can we change it to <cmd>+o+p?
> (This shortcut is currently occupied by Monticello Browser, but that can be movd to <cmd>+o+m which is free.)
>
> cmd+o+m would be
> ctrl+o ctrl+m on windows, but ctrl+m does not work yet on windows.
>
>
> You could argue that people are used to this shortcut, however that will not be true for newcommers, who will just see it as random naming (which it currently is).
>
> Peter
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."

Henrik Sperre Johansen

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

Ehm, or maybe fix event dispatch so it works properly?
It should always end up testing for event handling By the leaf morph at the given event position and work its way up if unhandled, not check top-down like the change to dispatchEvent:with: has ended up doing...

Cheers,
Henry

> On 11 Nov 2015, at 11:46 , Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I actually think we should disable those shortcuts.
>
> The reason is that they “pollute" the global shortcut space: for example, you can now not use Cmd+o for any custom action in your own window, and that is less than ideal.
>
> The alternative is to use Spotter to spawn windows. The interesting thing there is that you do not need shortcuts for every specific windows because you can use regular search. For example, opening Playground is: Shift+Enter, p, Enter
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>> On Nov 11, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-11-11 10:45 GMT+01:00 Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> currently to open a Playground via shortcut one has to type <cmd>+o+w, that's because it used to open Workspace.
>> However since it now opens Playground the shortcut is no longer appropriate.
>>
>> So can we change it to <cmd>+o+p?
>> (This shortcut is currently occupied by Monticello Browser, but that can be movd to <cmd>+o+m which is free.)
>>
>> cmd+o+m would be
>> ctrl+o ctrl+m on windows, but ctrl+m does not work yet on windows.
>>
>>
>> You could argue that people are used to this shortcut, however that will not be true for newcommers, who will just see it as random naming (which it currently is).
>>
>> Peter
>>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."
>
>
>
>

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Peter Uhnak

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:

I actually think we should disable those shortcuts.

The reason is that they “pollute" the global shortcut space:

Well they are global shortcuts, so that's to be expected.

for example, you can now not use Cmd+o for any custom action in your own window, and that is less than ideal.

as far as I know events bubble up, so morphs can intercept them (which will break the global shortcut, but if the programmer sees it as appropriate...)

The alternative is to use Spotter to spawn windows. The interesting thing there is that you do not need shortcuts for every specific windows because you can use regular search. For example, opening Playground is: Shift+Enter, p, Enter

This takes significantly more time, and on top of that doesn't actually work, because the first group is History and not Menu... so this would open PetitParser browser for me.

I don't see a problem in having global shortcuts for the most important tools, if the current key combinations are problem, then we should come up with different combinations.

Peter

CyrilFerlicot

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2

Le 11/11/2015 11:46, Tudor Girba a écrit :

> I actually think we should disable those shortcuts.
>
> The reason is that they “pollute" the global shortcut space: for example, you can now not use Cmd+o for any custom action in your own window, and that is less than ideal.
>
> The alternative is to use Spotter to spawn windows. The interesting thing there is that you do not need shortcuts for every specific windows because you can use regular search. For example, opening Playground is: Shift+Enter, p, Enter
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."
>
>

Hi,

I am totally against it because it's too much time to open it with the
spotter. A shortcut need to be a shortcut. If I need to open it via the
Spotter, I will use the mouse because it's the same time.
One more reason, when the image become too big sometime, the Spotter
need some time to initialize. On one of my latest image the spotter
needed ~3-4sec to open and initialize.

There is a lot of things that we cannot do easily only with the
keyboard, this is bad. So please, do not remove what works for now.

--
Cyril Ferlicot

http://www.synectique.eu

165 Avenue Bretagne
Lille 59000 France

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Andrei Chis

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

Hi,

I am totally against it because it's too much time to open it with the
spotter. A shortcut need to be a shortcut. If I need to open it via the
Spotter, I will use the mouse because it's the same time.
One more reason, when the image become too big sometime, the Spotter
need some time to initialize. On one of my latest image the spotter
needed ~3-4sec to open and initialize.

Just regarding the slowdown, if the image has no private data could you maybe share it?

If you cannot can I send you some logging statements to see what takes so long.

Normally there shouldn't be such a big slowdown.

One thing that slows down spotter is the fact that we display now all entries from the world menu, which we should change.

Also the extension for CatalogBrowser does an HTTP request every time one opens spotter. I am for changing this, or

at least for not displaying the CatalogBrowser by default until one starts searching.

Cheers,

Andrei

There is a lot of things that we cannot do easily only with the
keyboard, this is bad. So please, do not remove what works for now.

--
Cyril Ferlicot

http://www.synectique.eu

165 Avenue Bretagne
Lille 59000 France

Tudor Girba-2

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

In reply to this post by Henrik Sperre Johansen

Hi,

It was chosen a while ago that the Global shortcuts are checked first, before the local ones. The local ones propagate from bottom to top. The idea here was to guarantee global behavior, such as Shift+Enter for popping out things like Spotter. I was not happy about that, but that was the choice.

Now, I think that the global keymap mechanism should be used sparingly, and I think that using it for Cmd+o is a bit too much.

Cheers,
Doru

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 12:22 PM, Henrik Johansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ehm, or maybe fix event dispatch so it works properly?
> It should always end up testing for event handling By the leaf morph at the given event position and work its way up if unhandled, not check top-down like the change to dispatchEvent:with: has ended up doing...
>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
>> On 11 Nov 2015, at 11:46 , Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I actually think we should disable those shortcuts.
>>
>> The reason is that they “pollute" the global shortcut space: for example, you can now not use Cmd+o for any custom action in your own window, and that is less than ideal.
>>
>> The alternative is to use Spotter to spawn windows. The interesting thing there is that you do not need shortcuts for every specific windows because you can use regular search. For example, opening Playground is: Shift+Enter, p, Enter
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2015-11-11 10:45 GMT+01:00 Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> currently to open a Playground via shortcut one has to type <cmd>+o+w, that's because it used to open Workspace.
>>> However since it now opens Playground the shortcut is no longer appropriate.
>>>
>>> So can we change it to <cmd>+o+p?
>>> (This shortcut is currently occupied by Monticello Browser, but that can be movd to <cmd>+o+m which is free.)
>>>
>>> cmd+o+m would be
>>> ctrl+o ctrl+m on windows, but ctrl+m does not work yet on windows.
>>>
>>>
>>> You could argue that people are used to this shortcut, however that will not be true for newcommers, who will just see it as random naming (which it currently is).
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen."

abergel

Re: Changing playground and monticello shortcuts

In reply to this post by Andrei Chis

One thing that slows down spotter is the fact that we display now all entries from the world menu, which we should change.
Also the extension for CatalogBrowser does an HTTP request every time one opens spotter. I am for changing this, or
at least for not displaying the CatalogBrowser by default until one starts searching.

Woaaaa…. That is why opening Spotter on the other side of the World is so slow…

Yes please, remove this. Really. It does not bring much.

Alexandre