ChromeOS vs Cog VM

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ChromeOS vs Cog VM

KenD
By the way, I got a chance to work with Tim Rowledge at the Nanaimo Camp Smalltalk.

I'm sure Tim would have rather showed me around the Raspberry Pi VM work, but I have been unable to get any Cog VMs to work on either of my ARM Chromebooks.

CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.

It turns out that Chromebooks are very serious about protecting maximally against code hijacking.  They don't allow arbitrary code to be written into memory and executed.

This is very good for safety in an uncertain world, but is also the definition of Just-In-Time code generation.

I expected that Google's V8 JavaScript, which JITs, would show how to do this sanely under ChromeOS so that we could Cog it, but the code base for V8 shows that they only run the bytecodes -- no JIT -- on Chromebooks.


There is hope for the future, but some changes will be required:
See

"Exploiting and Protecting Dynamic Code Generation"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjguP_RxJ3JAhXQT4gKHS2VAUYQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwenke.gtisc.gatech.edu%2Fpapers%2Fsdcg.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF52_QFDuMcP05WvfeHNi2wUK-yHg&sig2=8SzTcWKA7VBubmzdzJmIiA


Google's "Safe Self-Modifying Code" patent: (Patent! Ack!! 8^{)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilmsKlxZ3JAhVRKYgKHfXgDOMQFgg5MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS8850574&usg=AFQjCNHTAbYqbvqy80Edcww1YDsgUvoKMQ&sig2=FK01uFZEn778RNmRm7iz4A


Also "Certified Self-Modifying Code"

http://flint.cs.yale.edu/flint/publications/smctr.pdf

More hoops, sigh.

FYI,
-KenD

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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

KenD
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:36:28 -0800
KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.

Sorry.  That is the _ARM_ Raspberry Pi system.

Sausage fingers, sigh.
-KenD

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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

nacho
In my x86 chromebook I had to chroot through crouton and run Cuis from there.
It seems that porting the VM to NaCL is indeed a daunting job....
Perhaps once web assembly is there, things turn a little easier, I don't know.
cheers!


Lic. Ignacio Sniechowski, MBA
Prosavic SRL

Tel: (011) 4542-6714


















On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:38 PM, KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:36:28 -0800
KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.

Sorry.  That is the _ARM_ Raspberry Pi system.

Sausage fingers, sigh.
-KenD

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Nacho Smalltalker apprentice. Buenos Aires, Argentina.
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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

KenD
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:02:53 -0300
Ignacio Sniechowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my x86 chromebook I had to chroot through crouton and run Cuis from
> there.

That is what I am doing, using the stack-vm for ARM.


> It seems that porting the VM to NaCL is indeed a daunting job....

So it would appear..


Cheers,
-KenD

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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

EuanM
In reply to this post by KenD
We can run Smalltalk on our ARM ChromeBooks!?!?

Where's the nearest How-to?


On 20 November 2015 at 18:00,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

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>    1. Re: Patterns (KenD)
>    2. ChromeOS vs Cog VM (KenD)
>    3. Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM (KenD)
>    4. Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM (Ignacio Sniechowski)
>    5. Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM (KenD)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:06:17 -0800
> From: KenD <[hidden email]>
> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Cuis] Patterns
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Greetings all!
>
> I have been without power for a few days.  Overhead power lines through forest with 70 mph "wind events" each winter is a guarantee of on-island jobs and the lineman's union is very adverse to underground phone lines.  I must say that this does add interest to the "island living" experience!  8^)
>
> Boy, did I miss a lot of eMail conversations!
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:00:41 -0300
> Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> > follow the BrowserWindow class #openBrowser and get MNU: owner
>> > follow the ColorEditorPanel class #initializedInstance and get wrong color subMorphs
>> >
>> >   - Dan
>
>> This is much nicer, thanks! To make the BrowserWindow style work, all
>> you have to do is to have #open answer the new instance (instead of the
>> class). WRT the ColorEditorPanel style, maybe Ken can comment, or a
>> little debugging is in order :)
>
> Actually, I was looking at color backgrounds which would not clash badly with color display and sliders.  Suggestions welcomed.  I still be learning too!
>
> Glad to be back online,
> -KenD
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:36:28 -0800
> From: KenD <[hidden email]>
> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk <[hidden email]>
> Cc: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Cuis] ChromeOS vs Cog VM
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> By the way, I got a chance to work with Tim Rowledge at the Nanaimo Camp Smalltalk.
>
> I'm sure Tim would have rather showed me around the Raspberry Pi VM work, but I have been unable to get any Cog VMs to work on either of my ARM Chromebooks.
>
> CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.
>
> It turns out that Chromebooks are very serious about protecting maximally against code hijacking.  They don't allow arbitrary code to be written into memory and executed.
>
> This is very good for safety in an uncertain world, but is also the definition of Just-In-Time code generation.
>
> I expected that Google's V8 JavaScript, which JITs, would show how to do this sanely under ChromeOS so that we could Cog it, but the code base for V8 shows that they only run the bytecodes -- no JIT -- on Chromebooks.
>
>
> There is hope for the future, but some changes will be required:
> See
>
> "Exploiting and Protecting Dynamic Code Generation"
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjguP_RxJ3JAhXQT4gKHS2VAUYQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwenke.gtisc.gatech.edu%2Fpapers%2Fsdcg.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF52_QFDuMcP05WvfeHNi2wUK-yHg&sig2=8SzTcWKA7VBubmzdzJmIiA
>
>
> Google's "Safe Self-Modifying Code" patent: (Patent! Ack!! 8^{)
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilmsKlxZ3JAhVRKYgKHfXgDOMQFgg5MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS8850574&usg=AFQjCNHTAbYqbvqy80Edcww1YDsgUvoKMQ&sig2=FK01uFZEn778RNmRm7iz4A
>
>
> Also "Certified Self-Modifying Code"
>
> http://flint.cs.yale.edu/flint/publications/smctr.pdf
>
> More hoops, sigh.
>
> FYI,
> -KenD
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:38:31 -0800
> From: KenD <[hidden email]>
> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk <[hidden email]>
> Cc: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Cuis] ChromeOS vs Cog VM
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:36:28 -0800
> KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.
>
> Sorry.  That is the _ARM_ Raspberry Pi system.
>
> Sausage fingers, sigh.
> -KenD
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:02:53 -0300
> From: Ignacio Sniechowski <[hidden email]>
> To: Discussion of Cuis Smalltalk <[hidden email]>
> Cc: tim Rowledge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Cuis] ChromeOS vs Cog VM
> Message-ID:
>         <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> In my x86 chromebook I had to chroot through crouton and run Cuis from
> there.
> It seems that porting the VM to NaCL is indeed a daunting job....
> Perhaps once web assembly is there, things turn a little easier, I don't
> know.
> cheers!
>
>
> *Lic. Ignacio Sniechowski, MBA*
> *Prosavic SRL*
>
> *Tel: (011) 4542-6714*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:38 PM, KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:36:28 -0800
>> KenD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > CogVM works fine on the ATM RasPi system.
>>
>> Sorry.  That is the _ARM_ Raspberry Pi system.
>>
>> Sausage fingers, sigh.
>> -KenD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cuis mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:27:32 -0800
> From: KenD <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Cuis] ChromeOS vs Cog VM
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:02:53 -0300
> Ignacio Sniechowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In my x86 chromebook I had to chroot through crouton and run Cuis from
>> there.
>
> That is what I am doing, using the stack-vm for ARM.
>
>
>> It seems that porting the VM to NaCL is indeed a daunting job....
>
> So it would appear..
>
>
> Cheers,
> -KenD
>
>
>
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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

nacho
This post was updated on .
Yes Euan,
However bear in mind two things:
1) You have to put your Chromebook into developer mode. See here on how to do it and what it means. http://www.howtogeek.com/210817/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-your-chromebook/

2) You have to install Crouton. Crouton chroots your ChromeOS with the Linux equivalent (usually an Ubuntu, but other flavours my be chosen). See here on how to install it, and all the options you have. https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton

3) Install the Crouton extension, really helps.

4) Install an ARM based VM (check in Eliot Miranda place) http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/ and for a classic VM in http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/

And that should do it.
Cheers
Nacho
Nacho Smalltalker apprentice. Buenos Aires, Argentina.
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Re: ChromeOS vs Cog VM

KenD
On Sat, 21 Nov 2015 04:53:02 -0800 (PST)
nacho <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 4) Install an ARM based VM (check in Eliot Miranda place)
> http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/ and for a classic VM in
> http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/

Nacho,

Great instructions.  I do almost all my work on an ARM Chromebook these days.

FYI I am using stklinuxhtARM-15.24.3386.tgz

Few of the Cog builds do stklinuxhtARM.

Cheers,
-KenD

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