Cincom Supporting Seaside on VisualWorks

Good news for all, here's a snippet from James Robertson's blog post
this morning,

"We plan to support Seaside, and that support will include a relational
persistence solution. We are still in the early stages of what that
persistence solution will look like, so I don't have any details yet.
However, we won't be waiting on that for basic Seaside support. Michel
Bany has done a great job of porting Seaside to Cincom Smalltalk, and we
will be supporting that."

More over here,

http://tinyurl.com/34kl9h

Cheers!

-Boris

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this is an excellent news.
The more support the better :)

Stef

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On Jun 19, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Boris Popov wrote:

> We plan to support Seaside, and that support will include a relational
> persistence solution.

That will be interesting. Looks like there will be a bit of healthy  
competition between Cincom and Gemstone.

I wonder what Cincom's "relational persistence solution" will look  
like. Will it be an object oriented approach to relational storage  
like REServe ( http://squeaksource.com/REServe.html ) or take a more  
traditional approach to object mapping like Glorp .

This is a subject that intreats me greatly and I  would love to hear  
more details on the proposed implementation if/when they are available.

Thanks
Will
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On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:31 PM, William Harford wrote:
> This is a subject that intreats me greatly and I  would love to  
> hear more details on the proposed implementation if/when they are  
> available.

Woops  ... interests ...

Nothing like posting incomprehensible english in a public forum  
(something I am very good at).

Sorry
Will

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I don't view this as competition between Cincom and GemStone. I'm glad Cincom is putting some weight behind Seaside. Interest in Seaside can only help grow the market for all Smalltalk vendors.

As for native persistence vs. relational persistence for Smalltalk, they both are in use today. GemStone's business for over 20 years has been based on native persistence being better than O/R mapping approaches. The more people understand objects -- whether that understanding comes from using Seaside, Smalltalk, Ruby, or Java -- the more they understand the benefits of native persistence. I'm sure many people using Cincom's Seaside will still find GemStone to be their preferable persistence solution.

-- Monty

-----Original Message-----
From: William Harford [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:32 AM
To: Seaside - general discussion
Subject: Re: [Seaside] Cincom Supporting Seaside on VisualWorks

On Jun 19, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Boris Popov wrote:

> We plan to support Seaside, and that support will include a relational
> persistence solution.

That will be interesting. Looks like there will be a bit of healthy 
competition between Cincom and Gemstone.

I wonder what Cincom's "relational persistence solution" will look 
like. Will it be an object oriented approach to relational storage 
like REServe ( http://squeaksource.com/REServe.html ) or take a more 
traditional approach to object mapping like Glorp .

This is a subject that intreats me greatly and I  would love to hear 
more details on the proposed implementation if/when they are available.

Thanks
Will
___________________________________
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At 01:31 PM 6/19/2007, William Harford wrote:

On Jun 19, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Boris Popov wrote:

We plan to support Seaside, and that support will include a relational
persistence solution.

That will be interesting. Looks like there will be a bit of healthy 
competition between Cincom and Gemstone.

I wonder what Cincom's "relational persistence solution" will look 
like. Will it be an object oriented approach to relational storage 
like REServe ( http://squeaksource.com/REServe.html ) or take a more 
traditional approach to object mapping like Glorp.

It is likely to be a more traditional approach, with automation of the mapping for simple cases. Certainly an approach like Glorp reflects my biases :-)

While I'm not familiar with REServe, I don't see as much value in trying to do an OODB-like approach layered onto relational. If people can use an OODB, then they are better off using one directly. One of the motivations for using a relational databases is that there are other things accessing the data that want it in relational form. This is less likely to be doable using something that maps the objects onto its own opaque relational schema.

This is a subject that intreats me greatly and I  would love to hear 
more details on the proposed implementation if/when they are available.

An example of the sort of things I have been thinking of can be seen in the GlorpActiveRecord packages in the Cincom Public Repository. I also talked about that at the Cincom User Conference in December in Frankfurt. It's sketchy, and things always change, but it's a start.

Thanks
Will
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