Clue about morphic performance??

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Clue about morphic performance??

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Hello all,

I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely).  Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much?  I suppose the RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that.  It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.

Bill


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Re: Clue about morphic performance??

Gary Chambers-4
Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a more
abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So, for
example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively.

Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and the
graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link...

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM
Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??


> Hello all,
>
> I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only
> by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be
> a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP
> client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely).
> Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it
> over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much?  I suppose the
> RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window
> (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that.
> It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
>
> Bill
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project 


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Re: Clue about morphic performance??

Igor Stasenko
On 22 February 2010 17:16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a more
> abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So, for
> example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively.
>
> Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and the
> graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link...
>

I haven't heard of RDP before. What if server using different font
sizes/theme for UI?
To my knowledge, all remote-desktop tools transferring the updated
bits, using various techniques to detect the portion of screen to be
updated.
On windows, there's even a virtual display driver, which adds a video
card to list of devices. So, any windows application can't escape such
low level, and all what is drawn on such 'display' can be transmitted
via network to show on different PC.

> Regards, Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM
> Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only
>> by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be
>> a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP
>> client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely).
>> Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it
>> over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much?  I suppose the
>> RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window
>> (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that.
>> It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: Clue about morphic performance??

Gary Chambers-4
RDP specs can be found here...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc240445(PROT.10).aspx

Note, inparticular, the GDI Acceleration extensions...

OK, a little lower level than "buttons", but higher level than bitmaps.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Stasenko" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??


> On 22 February 2010 17:16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a
>> more
>> abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So,
>> for
>> example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively.
>>
>> Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and
>> the
>> graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link...
>>
>
> I haven't heard of RDP before. What if server using different font
> sizes/theme for UI?
> To my knowledge, all remote-desktop tools transferring the updated
> bits, using various techniques to detect the portion of screen to be
> updated.
> On windows, there's even a virtual display driver, which adds a video
> card to list of devices. So, any windows application can't escape such
> low level, and all what is drawn on such 'display' can be transmitted
> via network to show on different PC.
>
>> Regards, Gary
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM
>> Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
>>
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only
>>> by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might
>>> be
>>> a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same
>>> RDP
>>> client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often
>>> severely).
>>> Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it
>>> over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much? I suppose the
>>> RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window
>>> (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that.
>>> It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project 


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