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Connecting the dots about grunt

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sebastianconcept

Connecting the dots about grunt

Hey guys,

what is grunt building when you call it in the amber dir?

I saw instructions here* and it compiles things but...

what's the result?

What's the underlying idea? make one file for production?

Hard to figure out, no blog posts no docs connecting the dots

sebastian

*https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber

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Manfred Kröhnert

Re: Connecting the dots about grunt

Hi Sebastian,

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous Makefiles (see the amberc task).
However, everything is written in Amber an JS.

There are plenty of other ideas which can be realized with it.
Unfortunately I don't have much time right now to work in them :-)

Best,
Manfred

Am 02.07.2013 19:58 schrieb "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]>:

Hey guys,
what is grunt building when you call it in the amber dir?

I saw instructions here* and it compiles things but...
what's the result?

What's the underlying idea? make one file for production?

Hard to figure out, no blog posts no docs connecting the dots
sebastian

*https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber

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sebastianconcept

Re: Connecting the dots about grunt

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous Makefiles (see the amberc task).

Which is ...?

It's about creating the server binary or ...?

I'm all for automation. And having the potential to automate many things is great.

The problem is that we might be passing the wrong impression that Amber requires to be built in order to be used.

I feel we need to expose more how to work with Amber from zero-to-production.

And I mean practicality here. Like this way or that way that works in opposition to "the ultimate way" of working with it.

It's not a race for hacker coolness is a race for solutions delivery.

We have a great thing here but if Amberians won't blog we'll sure hit a ceiling

sebastian

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 4:54:35 PM UTC-3, Manfred Kröhnert wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous Makefiles (see the amberc task).
However, everything is written in Amber an JS.

There are plenty of other ideas which can be realized with it.
Unfortunately I don't have much time right now to work in them :-)

Best,
Manfred

Am 02.07.2013 19:58 schrieb "Sebastian Sastre" <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="-TfETHNmmsYJ">sebastia...@...>:

Hey guys,
what is grunt building when you call it in the amber dir?

I saw instructions here* and it compiles things but...
what's the result?

What's the underlying idea? make one file for production?

Hard to figure out, no blog posts no docs connecting the dots
sebastian

*https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="-TfETHNmmsYJ">amber-lang+...@googlegroups.com.
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Herby Vojčík

Re: Connecting the dots about grunt

Sebastian Sastre wrote:
> Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous
> Makefiles (see the amberc task).
>
>
> Which is ...?

Recompiling the whole amber .js files from .st files, to put it shortly.
IOW, grunt tools in amber are for amber developers, not amber users (yet).

Manfred have ideas to make it usable for users of amber, too, to
recompile their project they build using amber, but he can tell better.

> It's about creating the server binary or ...?
>
> I'm all for automation. And having the potential to automate many things
> is great.
>
> The problem is that we might be passing the wrong impression that Amber
> requires to be built in order to be used.
>
> I feel we need to expose more how to work with Amber from
> zero-to-production.
>
> And I mean practicality here. Like this way or that way that works in
> opposition to "the ultimate way" of working with it.
>
> It's not a race for hacker coolness is a race for solutions delivery.
>
> We have a great thing here but if Amberians won't blog we'll sure hit a
> ceiling
>
> sebastian
>
> o/

Herby

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Manfred Kröhnert

Re: Connecting the dots about grunt

In reply to this post by sebastianconcept

Hi Sebastian,

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous Makefiles (see the amberc task).

Which is ...?

It's about creating the server binary or ...?

I mean, the 'amberc' grunt task calls 'amberc'.

So the grunt task does the same as 'amberc' on the commandline minus the need to write custom makefiles if you don't want to repeat the same commands over and over again.

Since you had already used 'amberc' I thought you might be familiar with the idea.

I'm all for automation. And having the potential to automate many things is great.

The problem is that we might be passing the wrong impression that Amber requires to be built in order to be used.

Since Amber is Smalltalk and does not have an image similar to other Smalltalks there needs to be a way to generate the *.js files from the *.st files.

So, yes, Amber needs to be built in order to be usable.

However, we provide the *.js files for convenience that the non-developer can start immediately and the IDE also exports them directly.

So building Amber with grunt is only a task Amber developers will do.

If we cast the impression that an Amber beginner need to use grunt in order to get started we should fix this.

But for now I can not see any reference to it on the Amber webpage.

If you look at any bigger JS library you will also notice that almost all of them use a buildsystem.

However, no one cares except the developers who provide minified versions of the library for the non-developers.

I feel we need to expose more how to work with Amber from zero-to-production.

And I mean practicality here. Like this way or that way that works in opposition to "the ultimate way" of working with it.

I am not sure what you mean by this.

For now we have the getting started pages on the wiki.

What we could use is an official sample application which beginners could work through in order to get started with developing Amber applications.

I have this idea (and also announced it on this list) to create an interactive Amber application for beginners to get started.

This will provide a more Smalltalk like feeling instead of going through wiki pages.

So far I didn't have time to work on it or anyone else.

It's not a race for hacker coolness is a race for solutions delivery.

Not sure what I should infere from this sentence.

What I did with Grunt is not 'coolness driven' but much more motivated by practicality.

Do you think that having a build system which works on almost any machine (not so with Makefiles) with close to zero setup (just use npm) and which everyone outside of the Amber core team can use is just because of 'coolness'?

Take a look at the Amber Examples repository where you can use the same mechanisms to build applications and not just Amber itself.

So, in my opinion this is 'solution delivery driven' if you want to call it that.

I am not saying it's perfect.

But it'll get even better over time.

We have a great thing here but if Amberians won't blog we'll sure hit a ceiling

Yes, I guess this could improve a bit :-)

sebastian

o/

Best,

Manfred

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 4:54:35 PM UTC-3, Manfred Kröhnert wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous Makefiles (see the amberc task).
However, everything is written in Amber an JS.

There are plenty of other ideas which can be realized with it.
Unfortunately I don't have much time right now to work in them :-)

Best,
Manfred

Am 02.07.2013 19:58 schrieb "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]>:

Hey guys,
what is grunt building when you call it in the amber dir?

I saw instructions here* and it compiles things but...
what's the result?

What's the underlying idea? make one file for production?

Hard to figure out, no blog posts no docs connecting the dots
sebastian

Manfred Kröhnert

Re: Connecting the dots about grunt

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:38 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sebastian Sastre wrote:

Right now the grunt build system does nothing more than the previous
Makefiles (see the amberc task).

Which is ...?

Recompiling the whole amber .js files from .st files, to put it shortly.
IOW, grunt tools in amber are for amber developers, not amber users (yet).

Manfred have ideas to make it usable for users of amber, too, to recompile their project they build using amber, but he can tell better.

Yes, it 'just' calls the Amber compiler and generates *.js files out of *.st files.

So far, almost all applications in the AmberExamples repository compile using the same mechanisms with which Amber itself can be rebuilt.

It might be a good idea to split some things into different packages to create a clearer differentiation.

But we need to discuss this first.

Best,

Manfred

It's about creating the server binary or ...?

I'm all for automation. And having the potential to automate many things
is great.

The problem is that we might be passing the wrong impression that Amber
requires to be built in order to be used.

I feel we need to expose more how to work with Amber from
zero-to-production.

And I mean practicality here. Like this way or that way that works in
opposition to "the ultimate way" of working with it.

It's not a race for hacker coolness is a race for solutions delivery.

We have a great thing here but if Amberians won't blog we'll sure hit a
ceiling

sebastian

o/

Herby