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Creating a new site and WebStyle's

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Rob Rothwell

Creating a new site and WebStyle's

Hello!

First, let me thank you for your good work on AIDA!

The business problem I am working on is a healthcare data collection application that combines electronically available data with data that must be manually collected and applies various business logic rules.

I have known for about 3 years that Smalltalk was the way to go to keep up with the constantly changing business logic and "subclass-like" nature of the problems, but I have admittedly struggled learning it.

Nonetheless, I stuck with it, went through the usual "tool" selection process, and settled on Squeak (for now). Then I spent a lot of time struggling with Seaside thinking that the best examples would be there now and in the future because, as you put it, it is "more popular."

But what I found is that AIDA was just easier for a novice Smalltalker to pick up. You must have done something right! Seaside feels like it assumes a much greater knowledge of Web programming, which I am lacking. AIDA just "makes sense." Thanks again!

Now for my questions:

1. I want to learn how to apply style sheets to my application. I can find people to help me with CSS, but I was wondering if anyone had a simple example showing some simple WebStyle method overrides and their effects to get me started.

2. It feels like I need to add a new site so I can play around with its WebStyle. I am developing locally right now, so when I try to add a new local site (after registering a new hostname in the Windows hosts file) with

     AIDASite newNamed: 'mysite',

I get the error "Site with such host:ip:port combination not allowed!"

Debugging shows me that I am failing one of the rules:
    "is host:ip:port combination of aSite allowed regarding to existing sites?"
    "rules:
        1. host name must be unique, except if it is * (anyHost)
        2. only one site per port can run on any host and all IP interfaces (ip = * or 0.0.0.0)
        3. if there is a site runing on all IPs, then no one can run on specific ip, per port
        4. 3 vice versa
        5. there is no site with the same host ip port combination
    "

because of

    (aSite onAllInterfaces not and: [self hasSiteOnAllInterfacesOnPort: aSite port])
        ifTrue: [^false].

Inspecting (SwazooServer singleton sites) reveals the default Swazoo "Hello World" application and the aidademo site both having:

ip = '*'
host = '*'
port = 8888.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again for the good work,

Rob Rothwell

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Janko Mivšek

Re: Creating a new site and WebStyle's

Hi Rob,

Rob Rothwell wrote:

> First, let me thank you for your good work on AIDA!

Thank you and welcome on Aida community's mailing list!

> The business problem I am working on is a healthcare data collection
> application that combines electronically available data with data that
> must be manually collected and applies various business logic rules.
>
> I have known for about 3 years that Smalltalk was the way to go to keep
> up with the constantly changing business logic and "subclass-like"
> nature of the problems, but I have admittedly struggled learning it.

Smalltalk is definitively a choice for a changing world and I like to
mention that the longer living Aida web app has just 10 years (Gas
Billing System for our national Gas company) and this one went through
fundamental business changes: tax reform, energy market deregulation,
Euro. Such a system is the best proof IMHO for Smalltalk and its
strengths coping with changes through the time.

> Nonetheless, I stuck with it, went through the usual "tool" selection
> process, and settled on Squeak (for now). Then I spent a lot of time
> struggling with Seaside thinking that the best examples would be there
> now and in the future because, as you put it, it is "more popular."
>
> But what I found is that AIDA was just easier for a novice Smalltalker
> to pick up. You must have done something right! Seaside feels like it
> assumes a much greater knowledge of Web programming, which I am
> lacking. AIDA just "makes sense." Thanks again!

Nice to hear that and my goal developing Aida from the start is
simplicity and Smalltalk only programming, with as few HTML or CSS
knowledge as possible.

> Now for my questions:
>
> 1. I want to learn how to apply style sheets to my application. I can
> find people to help me with CSS, but I was wondering if anyone had a
> simple example showing some simple WebStyle method overrides and their
> effects to get me started.

Sublcass WebStyle with your own, then AIDASite named: 'mysite')
styleClass: 'MyStyle'.

Override existing CSS methods with your own or just make only one
#cssAll and put everything there. Then "neutralize" other css methods
with empty ones (see JommlaStyle css-screen no).

For design approach look at http://www.csszengarden.com to see, what can
be done with clear separation of content from design.

> 2. It feels like I need to add a new site so I can play around with its
> WebStyle. I am developing locally right now, so when I try to add a new
> local site (after registering a new hostname in the Windows hosts file)
> with
>
> AIDASite newNamed: 'mysite',
>
> I get the error "Site with such host:ip:port combination not allowed!"

Better simply start a new site:

SwazooAida startOn: 8889

This will create a new site 'aidaOn8889'. Now stop it and change name
and even host:ip:port to your needs.

I hope this will help.

Good luck
Janko

> Debugging shows me that I am failing one of the rules:
> "is host:ip:port combination of aSite allowed regarding to existing
> sites?"
> "rules:
> 1. host name must be unique, except if it is * (anyHost)
> 2. only one site per port can run on any host and all IP
> interfaces (ip = * or 0.0.0.0 <http://0.0.0.0>)
> 3. if there is a site runing on all IPs, then no one can run on
> specific ip, per port
> 4. 3 vice versa
> 5. there is no site with the same host ip port combination
> "
>
> because of
>
> (aSite onAllInterfaces not and: [self hasSiteOnAllInterfacesOnPort:
> aSite port])
> ifTrue: [^false].
>
> Inspecting (SwazooServer singleton sites) reveals the default Swazoo
> "Hello World" application and the aidademo site both having:
>
> ip = '*'
> host = '*'
> port = 8888.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks again for the good work,
>
> Rob Rothwell
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aida mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
_______________________________________________
Aida mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida

Rob Rothwell

Re: Creating a new site and WebStyle's

On Jan 22, 2008 11:51 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:

Smalltalk is definitively a choice for a changing world and I like to
mention that the longer living Aida web app has just 10 years (Gas
Billing System for our national Gas company) and this one went through
fundamental business changes: tax reform, energy market deregulation,
Euro. Such a system is the best proof IMHO for Smalltalk and its
strengths coping with changes through the time.

Thanks...this is some of the best information I have received about why Smalltalk is a good choice for what we are trying to do!

Nice to hear that and my goal developing Aida from the start is
simplicity and Smalltalk only programming, with as few HTML or CSS
knowledge as possible.

So far it seems to be something I can figure out without too much difficulty, although common examples would always be welcome. Maybe that is something I can contribute as I figure things out...

Sublcass WebStyle with your own, then AIDASite named: 'mysite')
styleClass: 'MyStyle'.

Override existing CSS methods with your own or just make only one
#cssAll and put everything there. Then "neutralize" other css methods
with empty ones (see JommlaStyle css-screen no).

I will definitely try this out once I manage to create a new site (see below)!

For design approach look at http://www.csszengarden.com to see, what can
be done with clear separation of content from design.

So...between Smalltalk and CSS you have a very interesting "Model-Content-Design" triad going on...

Better simply start a new site:

SwazooAida startOn: 8889

This will create a new site 'aidaOn8889'. Now stop it and change name
and even host:ip:port to your needs.

This still gives me the same error message in AIDA 5.6 : "Site with such host:ip:port combination not allowed!"

I think I am not understanding something very basic, but I will keep trying!

Thanks,

Rob

_______________________________________________
Aida mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida

Janko Mivšek

Re: Creating a new site and WebStyle's

Hi Rob,

I'm it late of answers, sorry, but a new Aida website was born in the
meantime .. :)

Rob Rothwell wrote:

> Nice to hear that and my goal developing Aida from the start is
> simplicity and Smalltalk only programming, with as few HTML or CSS
> knowledge as possible.
>
> So far it seems to be something I can figure out without too much
> difficulty, although common examples would always be welcome. Maybe
> that is something I can contribute as I figure things out...

Yes, examples with a good description, that's what is missing. If you
have some ideas and a will to make them, you are very welcome. And
documentation of course. We need to improve tutorial first and foremost.

What is your impression, what is missing most urgently?

> For design approach look at http://www.csszengarden.com to see, what can
> be done with clear separation of content from design.
>
> So...between Smalltalk and CSS you have a very interesting
> "Model-Content-Design" triad going on...

Well put! MVC extended to M(CD)C :) Actually for CMS can really become
MCD as you said...

Best regards
Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
_______________________________________________
Aida mailing list
[hidden email]
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Nicholas Moore

Re: Creating a new site and WebStyle's

In reply to this post by Rob Rothwell

Rob,
did you notice that the new site is initialised with 'initializeDefaultSettings' (before your new port number is assigned) which is what is causing the conflict?
For testing you can either simply comment out the error message, or create a new method: Site (class) >> 'newNamed: onPort:' and call that in SwazooServer (class) >> prepareAidaDemoSiteOnPort: aNumber

Hope that helps,

Nicholas

Rob Rothwell wrote:

On Jan 22, 2008 11:51 AM, Janko Miv�ek <[hidden email]> wrote:

Better simply start a new site:

SwazooAida startOn: 8889

This will create a new site 'aidaOn8889'. Now stop it and change name
and even host:ip:port to your needs.

This still gives me the same error message in AIDA 5.6 : "Site with such host:ip:port combination not allowed!"

I think I am not understanding something very basic, but I will keep trying!

Thanks,

Rob
_______________________________________________
Aida mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
  

--
NJM TSR-i

Nicholas J Moore

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Rob Rothwell

Re: Creating a new site and WebStyle's

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

On Jan 24, 2008 5:54 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Rob,

I'm it late of answers, sorry, but a new Aida website was born in the
meantime .. :)

I saw your post...congratulations! I am surprised to see that you respond to most of the posts here. When do you find the time?

Yes, examples with a good description, that's what is missing. If you
have some ideas and a will to make them, you are very welcome. And
documentation of course. We need to improve tutorial first and foremost.

What is your impression, what is missing most urgently?

As a novice, I think most Smalltalk projects lack good introductory material because experienced Smalltalkers are so capable of figuring that stuff out by reading the code. Personally, I think that is one of the major barriers for those not fortunate enough to learn from a mentor, and if you look at all the code samples you can snag in any other programming language it makes you wonder why that is not happening with Smalltalk.

So...the short answer is more actual code samples, particularly around the "challenging" parts. I'll have to think about this some more, but I am FINALLY learning enough Smalltalk to be able to contribute something, I think, from a "novice perspective."

I know that isn't a full answer to the question, but I did want you to know I was thinking about it!

Well put! MVC extended to M(CD)C :) Actually for CMS can really become
MCD as you said...

Don't you think for most any Aida application (not just CMS) you could lay out your design requirements from a CSS standpoint enough to be able to properly tag the content of your application in a way that, for the most part, would make changes to the design have minimal impact on your code? I guess I kind of thought that was your intent and found that very exciting because I am notoriously uninterested in "making it pretty" and was hoping I could enlist the help of those who enjoy that sort of thing!

Cheers

Rob

P.S. I have to point out that the fact that you are responding to me in quite understandable English from another country and I can not do the same is quite...humbling.

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