Default font can be unreadable

This may be a system-configuration issue, but on my (W2K) box, the default font
is essentially unreadable.  Presumably this is an artefact of the way that
Windows/Scintilla handle the case were the configured font is missing.

Attached is a small screenshot from the 'welcome.st' workspace that is the
first thing a new user sees (and, if it looked like this, probably the last).
I care particularly about that workspace because I still remember the Gosh-WoW
impression it made on me when I first fired up Dolphin all those years ago...
Please note that the screenshot has no (lossy) compression -- this is exactly
how it looked.

BTW, why configure a default font for the IDE at all ?  Presumably the users'
own font settings (in Windows) are a better guide to what they find comfortable
and readable that any "guess" that OA can make.

(Submitted as a bug)

    -- chris


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Chris,

I agree that the choice of Lucida Bright as the default font was a bad
one. However, the problem with accepting the users' own font setting
for the workspaces (and perhaps any of the browser list panes) is that
the font will likely be too small.

I've just tried it here, inheriting the default desktop font (the
iconTitle font) on my machine and, while that is okay for the list
panes in the browsers it is simply too small for me to be comfortable
with in the workspaces. I think this would be especially the case for
most people whose first impression, as you pointed out, is the Welcome
workspace. One of the problems is that it is perhaps too complex for a
first time user to change the workspace font as the first thing they do.

 From what I can see, Windows only allows the specification of
NONCLIENTMETRICS (rather than "CLIENT"METRICS) so there isn't really a
suitable system metrics font to choose. This leads me to think that we
should again choose one of the standard Windows fonts in a particular
font size. Since I'm now coming to think that the non-serif fonts are
really no more unreadable than the serif ones, I'm gravitating towards
Arial 10pt.

Any strong objections to this?


--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Andy Bower escribió:
> I agree that the choice of Lucida Bright as the default font was a bad
> one. However, the problem with accepting the users' own font setting
> for the workspaces (and perhaps any of the browser list panes) is that
> the font will likely be too small.

> [SNIP]

> From what I can see, Windows only allows the specification of
> NONCLIENTMETRICS (rather than "CLIENT"METRICS) so there isn't really a
> suitable system metrics font to choose. This leads me to think that we
> should again choose one of the standard Windows fonts in a particular
> font size. Since I'm now coming to think that the non-serif fonts are
> really no more unreadable than the serif ones, I'm gravitating towards
> Arial 10pt.
>
> Any strong objections to this?

Being a type advocate, I like Trebuchet MS, it has the readability
"on screen" of small sans, but has some serifs to make it more
serif, allowing me to differentiate an uppercase I with a lowercase
L. It looks good on screen and paper. And it is inside the WinXP
Design Guidelines recommended fonts (not for text, but...).

My two cents.

Best regards

--
Esteban.

> I agree that the choice of Lucida Bright as the default font was a bad
> one. However, the problem with accepting the users' own font setting
> for the workspaces (and perhaps any of the browser list panes) is that
> the font will likely be too small.

I like small fonts. I set all fonts to Tahoma 8pt, even workspace/code
windows. :)

Then again, I'm on a 19" lcd. They probably don't read as well on a crt

I think a default to Arial 10pt is probably a safe option.

Hi Andy,

I would be happy with Arial.

FWIW: here is what the "Windows XP Visual Guidelines" says about fonts:

=====
Franklin Gothic is used only for text over 14 point. Franklin Gothic is
often used for headers, and should never be used for body text.

Tahoma is used as the system's default font. Tahoma should be used at 8, 9
or 11 point sizes.

Verdana is used only for title bars of tear-off/floating palettes- Verdana
Bold, 8 point.

Trebuchet MS is used only for the title bars of windows- Trebuchet MS Bold,
10 point.
=====
Steve
--
Steve Waring
[hidden email]

[...]
> From what I can see, Windows only allows the specification of
> NONCLIENTMETRICS (rather than "CLIENT"METRICS) so there isn't really a
> suitable system metrics font to choose. This leads me to think that we
> should again choose one of the standard Windows fonts in a particular
> font size. Since I'm now coming to think that the non-serif fonts are
> really no more unreadable than the serif ones, I'm gravitating towards
> Arial 10pt.
>
> Any strong objections to this?

Suggestion:  FixedSys 9 normal.  It is the most readable font in the known
two universes.


Shaping

Andy

> Since I'm now coming to think that the non-serif fonts are
> really no more unreadable than the serif ones, I'm gravitating towards
> Arial 10pt.
>
> Any strong objections to this?

Not at all.  It seems like a good conservative (a good thing in this context)
option.

<aside>
Since everyone else has mentioned their personal preferences ;-)  I use 8pt MS
Sans Serif myself.  There's not a lot to choose between it and the (OpenType
equivalent) Microsoft Sans Serif or, indeed, Tahoma.  But I find that the
bitmap font works better when displayed vertically.  It's not as good as the
other two when displayed in italics, but since I don't use italics that doesn't
bother me.
</aside>

    -- chris

> bitmap font works better when displayed vertically.  It's not as good as
> the
> other two when displayed in italics, but since I don't use italics that
> doesn't
> bother me.

I can't stand italics at all. The first thing I do do a Dolphin image is
load my basic env package which does all those things like turns off italic
comments etc.

Now there seem to be a proliferation of italics in various stylings in D6.
Are we the only ones who don't like italics? :)

Sean Malloy wrote:
You can include me in the proverbial we of disliking italics. Hence my
attempt to change the style for temporary variables.

Ted

Sean Malloy wrote:

> Now there seem to be a proliferation of italics in various stylings in D6.
> Are we the only ones who don't like italics? :)

SmalltalkWorkspace textStyles
    do: [:each | each isBold: false; isItalic: false].

No I don't like 'em at all.  But I do think that OA are right to set up those
styles by default.  It's wrong from a usability point of view, but right from
the point of view of not violating new user's expectations unecessarily.

Programmers are a peculiar bunch.  Just about every IDE, from MSVS to the any
freeware product, uses italics all over the place.  Why ?  I don't know.  It
seems insane to me...  (The same goes for antialiased fonts -- programmers
(judging by comp.lang.java.programmer) love them, they'd rather attempt to
"fix" a badly designed typeface by making it blurry, than install a some decent
quality fonts.  Crazy...)

At least Dolphin gives us programmatic access to the settings -- far better
than having to click, and cick, and click, and click again, as with most IDEs.

    -- chris

Andy

I don't like that choice. I don't like the Arial font much anyway, but
especially in this application. It's too wide, spaces especially, and has no
visible difference between an uppercase I and a lowercase ell.

Also as someone who can't see very well at the moment (4 days post laser eye
surgery thiings can be a bit misty) I can assure you that sans serif fonts
are distinctly more difficult to read than serif'd fonts, even at larger
point sizes.

Why not just go back to Times New Roman. Smalltalk is supposed to read like
text, so it should use a publishing typeface designed for bodies of text.
Either that or ship the Lucida Bright in the installer.

Regards

Blair

"Andy Bower" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
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