Do we kill the catalog?

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 12:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le 20/04/2018 à 11:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Apr 2018, at 11:01, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 20/04/2018 à 09:09, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
>>>> The underlying questions (sorry for people that need subtitles) are:
>>>> - how do we have a central place to declare projects
>>>>     - right now in Smalltalkhub/list is a nice way to find projects
>>>> with the move to github
>>>>     we should get a central place
>>>
>>> One of the issues I have with the Catalog is that it made a mess of
>>> the various MetaRrepo for Pharo... Showing in the end that the single
>>> place one should put a ConfigurationOf for Pharo is the squeak meta repo.
>>
>> not really.
>> if you put your project in the squeak meta repo it will not even be
>> listed (is old stuff and we are not listing those).
>>
>> the idea was to add a project in its corresponding development repo. But
>> is an uncomfortable way, yes (and it was a patch, not meant to last)
>>
>>> That in addition the Catalog doesn't even use the best package
>>> management we have at a given point is just salt rubbed in the wound.
>>
>> that’s a one method change. Instead:
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Gofer it
>> url: self repositoryUrl;
>> configurationOf: self name;
>> load
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Metacello new
>> repository: self repositoryUrl;
>> configuration: self name;
>> load.
>>
>> when I made catalog, Metacello usage was not so expanded.
>> Yet… gofer will use metacello to load so, yes, it will use the best
>> package management we have at the moment.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Except if it changed recently, Gofer does not use Metacello behind.
>
> At Synectique when I tried to clean all our configurations because it
> was really hard to update them, I found some problems in the
> configurations but the projects were loading. The reasons was that we
> used Gofer and the bugs of gofer compensated the problems in the
> configurations. After switching to Metacello the projects did not load
> anymore and I needed to fix the configurations to make them clean.
>
> So, if it worked with Gofer but not Metacello, I doubt Gofer use Metacello.

there is no way of loading a configuration/baseline without metacello.

Esteban

>
>>
>> very unlikely.
>> a spec made in STON you just have to modify it each time you do a
>> release (which is exactly what you have to do now with configurations).
>>
>> A crawler will not handle the need to publish a released version.
>>
>> one STON file as I imagine would be something like:
>>
>> project {
>> “name” : "blah",
>> “url” : "http://github.com/someone/blah",
>> “lastVersion” : “v1.0.0",
>> “description” : “Some project description"
>> }
>>
>> and maybe a couple more. How’s that cryptic?
>> maybe you are confusing things?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cyril Ferlicot
> https://ferlicot.fr
>

Hi all,

IMHO, the problem is not metacello or gofer but the fact that the catalog uses the old Metacello API: i.e.,

Gofer new

  repository: 'zzz';

  configurationOf: 'XXX';

  load.

(ConfigurationOfXXX project version: #YYY) load

instead of the new Metacello API

Metacello new

  repository: 'zzz'

  configurationOf: 'XXX'

  loadVersion: #'YYY'

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 12:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le 20/04/2018 à 11:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Apr 2018, at 11:01, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 20/04/2018 à 09:09, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
>>>> The underlying questions (sorry for people that need subtitles) are:
>>>> - how do we have a central place to declare projects
>>>>     - right now in Smalltalkhub/list is a nice way to find projects
>>>> with the move to github
>>>>     we should get a central place
>>>
>>> One of the issues I have with the Catalog is that it made a mess of
>>> the various MetaRrepo for Pharo... Showing in the end that the single
>>> place one should put a ConfigurationOf for Pharo is the squeak meta repo.
>>
>> not really.
>> if you put your project in the squeak meta repo it will not even be
>> listed (is old stuff and we are not listing those).
>>
>> the idea was to add a project in its corresponding development repo. But
>> is an uncomfortable way, yes (and it was a patch, not meant to last)
>>
>>> That in addition the Catalog doesn't even use the best package
>>> management we have at a given point is just salt rubbed in the wound.
>>
>> that’s a one method change. Instead:
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Gofer it
>> url: self repositoryUrl;
>> configurationOf: self name;
>> load
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Metacello new
>> repository: self repositoryUrl;
>> configuration: self name;
>> load.
>>
>> when I made catalog, Metacello usage was not so expanded.
>> Yet… gofer will use metacello to load so, yes, it will use the best
>> package management we have at the moment.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Except if it changed recently, Gofer does not use Metacello behind.
>
> At Synectique when I tried to clean all our configurations because it
> was really hard to update them, I found some problems in the
> configurations but the projects were loading. The reasons was that we
> used Gofer and the bugs of gofer compensated the problems in the
> configurations. After switching to Metacello the projects did not load
> anymore and I needed to fix the configurations to make them clean.
>
> So, if it worked with Gofer but not Metacello, I doubt Gofer use Metacello.

there is no way of loading a configuration/baseline without metacello.

Esteban

>
>>
>> very unlikely.
>> a spec made in STON you just have to modify it each time you do a
>> release (which is exactly what you have to do now with configurations).
>>
>> A crawler will not handle the need to publish a released version.
>>
>> one STON file as I imagine would be something like:
>>
>> project {
>> “name” : "blah",
>> “url” : "http://github.com/someone/blah",
>> “lastVersion” : “v1.0.0",
>> “description” : “Some project description"
>> }
>>
>> and maybe a couple more. How’s that cryptic?
>> maybe you are confusing things?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cyril Ferlicot
> https://ferlicot.fr
>

--

Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr Web: http://guillep.github.io Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13

Thierry

May be you are nervous these days. But try to relax and get a positive mindset.
This is not perfect but it is there. You know that we are all full and
even more.
So just criticizing is not productive.


> One of the issues I have with the Catalog is that it made a mess of the
> various MetaRrepo for Pharo... Showing in the end that the single place one
> should put a ConfigurationOf for Pharo is the squeak meta repo.

If you find that funny it is not.
The point of having multiple repo was to make sure that contrary to
the old squeak experience
projects would load.


> That in addition the Catalog doesn't even use the best package management we
> have at a given point is just salt rubbed in the wound.


I do not get what you mean but do not reply.
I do not think that it will be interested. You are in a ranting mode
and it deos not help.



>
> As you wish. I know it belongs to one of these GUIs where I have to spend 10
> minutes to try to remember what the icons mean. But that's just me.

Come on. There are fly by help

> The key point to me is that the Catalog should reduce the friction it
> creates, not that the Catalog has to be a perfect solution.
>
> For example, do user-stories on it: how do one publish and updates a project
> on the Catalog? What has one to do in CI to ensure a project is validated
> ... Can the catalog just takes care of that part, if the project has a
> correct setup (project has tests visible in the configurationOf, catalog
> does the CI stuff of testing it upon each new release of Pharo, even stable
> because Iceberg breaks stuff when updated in Pharo 6.1, for example). Tags
> for Pharo versions are only granted if project has been tested on CI by the
> Catalog for the current version image you're in, for example.

I have a long todo list too. We just did not get the resources for it.
Let us face it.

> We know how to explore and manipulate project specs already; look into the
> GT tools for the code, and I also use a variant in my AltBrowser when I sort
> all packages under the configuration or baseline they are specified in.
>
> In short, make it so that the Catalog is low friction and bring value to
> both project maintainers and users.
>
> Thierry
>
>
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:46 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> why to kill it?
>>> right now we do not have a replacement.
>>>
>>> Esteban
>>>
>>>> On 19 Apr 2018, at 08:42, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys
>>>>
>>>> What do we do with it?
>>>> What alternatives?
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Hi guille 

should we open an issue and update the catalog?

Stef

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 3:53 PM, Guillermo Polito <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

IMHO, the problem is not metacello or gofer but the fact that the catalog uses the old Metacello API: i.e.,

Gofer new

  repository: 'zzz';

  configurationOf: 'XXX';

  load.

(ConfigurationOfXXX project version: #YYY) load

instead of the new Metacello API

Metacello new

  repository: 'zzz'

  configurationOf: 'XXX'

  loadVersion: #'YYY'

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 12:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le 20/04/2018 à 11:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Apr 2018, at 11:01, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 20/04/2018 à 09:09, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
>>>> The underlying questions (sorry for people that need subtitles) are:
>>>> - how do we have a central place to declare projects
>>>>     - right now in Smalltalkhub/list is a nice way to find projects
>>>> with the move to github
>>>>     we should get a central place
>>>
>>> One of the issues I have with the Catalog is that it made a mess of
>>> the various MetaRrepo for Pharo... Showing in the end that the single
>>> place one should put a ConfigurationOf for Pharo is the squeak meta repo.
>>
>> not really.
>> if you put your project in the squeak meta repo it will not even be
>> listed (is old stuff and we are not listing those).
>>
>> the idea was to add a project in its corresponding development repo. But
>> is an uncomfortable way, yes (and it was a patch, not meant to last)
>>
>>> That in addition the Catalog doesn't even use the best package
>>> management we have at a given point is just salt rubbed in the wound.
>>
>> that’s a one method change. Instead:
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Gofer it
>> url: self repositoryUrl;
>> configurationOf: self name;
>> load
>>
>> loadConfiguration
>> Metacello new
>> repository: self repositoryUrl;
>> configuration: self name;
>> load.
>>
>> when I made catalog, Metacello usage was not so expanded.
>> Yet… gofer will use metacello to load so, yes, it will use the best
>> package management we have at the moment.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Except if it changed recently, Gofer does not use Metacello behind.
>
> At Synectique when I tried to clean all our configurations because it
> was really hard to update them, I found some problems in the
> configurations but the projects were loading. The reasons was that we
> used Gofer and the bugs of gofer compensated the problems in the
> configurations. After switching to Metacello the projects did not load
> anymore and I needed to fix the configurations to make them clean.
>
> So, if it worked with Gofer but not Metacello, I doubt Gofer use Metacello.

there is no way of loading a configuration/baseline without metacello.

Esteban

>
>>
>> very unlikely.
>> a spec made in STON you just have to modify it each time you do a
>> release (which is exactly what you have to do now with configurations).
>>
>> A crawler will not handle the need to publish a released version.
>>
>> one STON file as I imagine would be something like:
>>
>> project {
>> “name” : "blah",
>> “url” : "http://github.com/someone/blah",
>> “lastVersion” : “v1.0.0",
>> “description” : “Some project description"
>> }
>>
>> and maybe a couple more. How’s that cryptic?
>> maybe you are confusing things?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cyril Ferlicot
> https://ferlicot.fr
>

--

Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr Web: http://guillep.github.io Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13