Dolphin 6 Beta 1

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Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
Folks,

Beta 1 is (we hope) ready. You can download the installer at:

http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/6.0/DolphinSetupX6.exe

You will need a serial number to unlock the image. To get this, please
e-mail me at [hidden email] with "D6 Beta Serial Number" as the
subject line. I'll be generating the serial numbers manually, so bear
in mind that the reply may not be instantaneous. I will, however,
monitor my e-mail regularly over the weekend for those of you keen to
try D6 out ASAP.

NOTES:

1) We haven't had time to generate a list of bug fixes/enhancements
since 5.1.4 but will try to do this first thing next week.

2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machines. We
were going to make the installer refuse to install on earlier versions
of Windows but, for the beta at least, we've left it so you can try to
install it on any version if you wish. We will only be testing on XP
and 2K3, though.

3) A suite of tests is supplied. While all but three run in our
development image you may find a few more failures in the deployed
release. We'd be interested to know what these are at your end. For the
DB tests to work you will need to set up an ODBC DataSource called
"NWind" to the MS Office NorthWind database. In our case the DB is
located at:

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office11\Samples\NorthWind.mdb"

Earlier (or later) version of this database may give errors.
A couple of the tests (ClassBrowserTest and SystemBrowserTest) rely on
the presence of the AutoIt automation control. This can be found at:

http://www.autoitscript.com/AutoIt

You will need version 2 of the control.

I suggest that you don't run the tests straight off or they will
trigger a number of the "One-Off" messages that appear in bubbles in
some of the tools. This won't cause a problem but it does mean that you
won't see these "one off" messages as you explore the system yourself.

4) Deployment of Console apps is broken as is deployment of Hello
World. At present an application must have a view resource associated
with it to deploy correctly.

5) The ViewComposer has received quite a major overhaul. Apart from a
smart new look you'll find that it now supports undo/redo (hurray) and
that you can see menu bars in shells that you edit (hurray, hurray).
The way it works inside is rather different and this results in a few
controls not painting correctly within it. At the moment I think this
is limited to tab views and some card containers.

Eventually, although not quite yest, the aim is that you should also be
able to attach a VC to live view running with attached presenter.

Ok, that's enough for now. Good luck.

Best regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Andy,

I have meeting all afternoon :(  Thanks for the hard work!


> Beta 1 is (we hope) ready. You can download the installer at:
>
> http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/6.0/DolphinSetupX6.exe

FWIW, this appears to not be password protected, so anybody can download
it.  Of course, that might be ok given the need for an unlock key.

Some random questions and comments follow.  More to follow, no doubt.


> You will need a serial number to unlock the image. To get this, please
> e-mail me at [hidden email] with "D6 Beta Serial Number" as the
> subject line. I'll be generating the serial numbers manually, so bear
> in mind that the reply may not be instantaneous. I will, however,
> monitor my e-mail regularly over the weekend for those of you keen to
> try D6 out ASAP.

Thanks.  It's in your in-box, with the caveat that I have not installed
yet, so if you need a code from the image, I will need to re-send.



> NOTES:
>
> 1) We haven't had time to generate a list of bug fixes/enhancements
> since 5.1.4 but will try to do this first thing next week.
>
> 2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machines. We
> were going to make the installer refuse to install on earlier versions
> of Windows but, for the beta at least, we've left it so you can try to
> install it on any version if you wish. We will only be testing on XP
> and 2K3, though.

Seems reasonable.  One question, why sp3 on 2k?  I have one reason
(reverse lookup of local host name) to prefer it.  What else should I
know about?


> 3) A suite of tests is supplied. While all but three run in our
> development image you may find a few more failures in the deployed
> release. We'd be interested to know what these are at your end. For the
> DB tests to work you will need to set up an ODBC DataSource called
> "NWind" to the MS Office NorthWind database. In our case the DB is
> located at:
>
> "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office11\Samples\NorthWind.mdb"

Is it legal to post this somewhere?  If not, I can dig it up from an
Office 97 installation somewhere.


> Eventually, although not quite yest, the aim is that you should also be
> able to attach a VC to live view running with attached presenter.

Interesting.  I've used Ian's Snoop for that, but it sounds useful.  It
presents both view and presenter hierarchies, which can be helpful.  I
hereby enter a plea for that feature to continue, whether in Snoop or in
some other way (VC feature, IDE extension, etc.).


> Ok, that's enough for now. Good luck.

Luck - will we need it? :)

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Andy,

>> http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/6.0/DolphinSetupX6.exe

It ran, but the fresh image/VM complains about msvcp71.dll.  The machine
tells me it is running win2k sp4.

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3
Folks,

If you took the download before this message was posted then you may
find that the MSVC7 library DLLs are missing from the install. I have
just updated the setup program so, just re-download and try the install
now.

Best regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
Bill,

> > 2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machines.
> > We were going to make the installer refuse to install on earlier
> > versions of Windows but, for the beta at least, we've left it so
> > you can try to install it on any version if you wish. We will only
> > be testing on XP and 2K3, though.
>
> Seems reasonable.  One question, why sp3 on 2k?  I have one reason
> (reverse lookup of local host name) to prefer it.  What else should I
> know about?

Sorry if this was confusing. I meant, D6 will only be supported on XP
and Windows Server 2003 machines. Win2K is not one of our target
platforms and I doubt it will run correctly.

Best regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Andy,

> Sorry if this was confusing. I meant, D6 will only be supported on XP
> and Windows Server 2003 machines. Win2K is not one of our target
> platforms and I doubt it will run correctly.

That's a problem.  I have some machines that are barely at mid-life and
simply cannot be "upgraded" (pen computers).  Until they are replaced
(which takes $$ and worse, _time_), I will need something that can
target win2k.  D5.1 does, of course.

While I agree that win9x support is negotiable (some might argue nearly
impossible) at this point, I suspect you will find quite a few shops
clinging to 2k.  That will be all the more true if what our support guys
tell me about recent patches and activation tests is true.  They further
report that when the OS complains re activation, the support from MS is
no longer as spritely as in the past.

I am certainly willing to try D6 on 2k, and am further willing to set up
a token xp box to do some testing.  However, I hope you will consider
that there are stil quite a few holdouts (read potential customers) who
cannot/will not move to XP.  Just my 2 asCents.

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Esteban A. Maringolo-2
In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3
Andy Bower escribió:

> Beta 1 is (we hope) ready. You can download the installer at:
> http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/6.0/DolphinSetupX6.exe

> You will need a serial number to unlock the image. To get this, please
> e-mail me at [hidden email] with "D6 Beta Serial Number" as the
> subject line. I'll be generating the serial numbers manually, so bear
> in mind that the reply may not be instantaneous. I will, however,
> monitor my e-mail regularly over the weekend for those of you keen to
> try D6 out ASAP.

If I press Alt+F4 in the Unlock Image Dialog, I can bypass it, but
when I click on it again, the image starts as it comes, without
allowing me to enter the unlock code (and having to reinstall to
obtain the vanilla image back).


> NOTES:
>
> 1) We haven't had time to generate a list of bug fixes/enhancements
> since 5.1.4 but will try to do this first thing next week.
>
> 2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machines. We
> were going to make the installer refuse to install on earlier versions
> of Windows but, for the beta at least, we've left it so you can try to
> install it on any version if you wish. We will only be testing on XP
> and 2K3, though.

So W2K bugs and issues will no be accepted during the D6 beta program?

> 3) A suite of tests is supplied. While all but three run in our
> development image you may find a few more failures in the deployed
> release. We'd be interested to know what these are at your end. For the
> DB tests to work you will need to set up an ODBC DataSource called
> "NWind" to the MS Office NorthWind database. In our case the DB is
> located at:

> "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office11\Samples\NorthWind.mdb"
> Earlier (or later) version of this database may give errors.
> A couple of the tests (ClassBrowserTest and SystemBrowserTest) rely on
> the presence of the AutoIt automation control. This can be found at:

"Program Files" works fine if you have an english windows
installation, or a MUI one, but in other languages the name changes
(ie. here is "Archivos de Programa").

Additionally, I've found that the unlocking ask where to place the
image (thanks :-) ), but it assumes that the "My Documents" folder
is in "C:\Documents And Settings\username", where it may not be
true. Here at work "My documents" folder maps to a network drive.

The same could happen if somebody is using "Mobile profiles" in
W2k/2003 networks.

Few more points:

1. What will be the channel for reporting issues and bugs?
2. Why X6 and not just 6? (i like it anyway).
3. The code completion is espectacular-espectacular, even in
workspaces!!!

Go swim Flipper! :-D

Best regards

--
Esteban.


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

rush
In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> Andy,
> While I agree that win9x support is negotiable (some might argue nearly
> impossible) at this point, I suspect you will find quite a few shops
> clinging to 2k.  That will be all the more true if what our support guys
> tell me about recent patches and activation tests is true.  They further
> report that when the OS complains re activation, the support from MS is
> no longer as spritely as in the past.
>
> I am certainly willing to try D6 on 2k, and am further willing to set up
> a token xp box to do some testing.  However, I hope you will consider
> that there are stil quite a few holdouts (read potential customers) who
> cannot/will not move to XP.  Just my 2 asCents.

:) I have started writing sometnig like this, and then I thought wait a bit,
now will Bill write something like this but more eloquently. So I will now
just second Bill's post. I also remember we had similar discussion for at
least last few releases of Dolphin, so I will not bore you to death with
arguments, just stating that not much has changed under the sun regarding
this issue. I do not mind developing on XP, but beeing able to run deployed
apps on older machines is important consideration. So, please, to extent
that is not hurting your development too much, try to keep old machines in
bussines.

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo-2
Esteban,

> If I press Alt+F4 in the Unlock Image Dialog, I can bypass it, but
> when I click on it again, the image starts as it comes, without
> allowing me to enter the unlock code (and having to reinstall to
> obtain the vanilla image back).

Hmm.. thanks for that. Recorded as issue #1700.

> > "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office11\Samples\NorthWind.mdb"
> > Earlier (or later) version of this database may give errors.
> > A couple of the tests (ClassBrowserTest and SystemBrowserTest) rely
> > on the presence of the AutoIt automation control. This can be found
> > at:
>
> "Program Files" works fine if you have an english windows
> installation, or a MUI one, but in other languages the name changes
> (ie. here is "Archivos de Programa").

Ok, fair enough but you get to set up the ODBC data source to point to
where you like so it shouldn't be a problem.

> Additionally, I've found that the unlocking ask where to place the
> image (thanks :-) ), but it assumes that the "My Documents" folder is
> in "C:\Documents And Settings\username", where it may not be true.
> Here at work "My documents" folder maps to a network drive.

Hmm.. I've recorded this as #1701

> 1. What will be the channel for reporting issues and bugs?

Report bugs in this newsgroup please.

> 2. Why X6 and not just 6? (i like it anyway).

Well, it could stand for "eXtreme 6" or perhaps "times 6", i.e. six
times faster for development. Who knows?

> 3. The code completion is espectacular-espectacular, even in
> workspaces!!!

Great!

Best regards
 
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

rush
> Well, it could stand for "eXtreme 6" or perhaps "times 6", i.e. six
> times faster for development. Who knows?
>
> > 3. The code completion is espectacular-espectacular, even in
> > workspaces!!!
>
> Great!

hm, how is code completion suposed to work?

when I type in workspace for instance Time I get empty white box below it.
after I type space, I get a bit bigger empty white box below it.

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Steve Messamore
Hi Rush,
type any character after the Time and it shows you a list of metods, etc.
It's pretty slick! :)
Cheers,
Steve
"rush" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

>> Well, it could stand for "eXtreme 6" or perhaps "times 6", i.e. six
>> times faster for development. Who knows?
>>
>> > 3. The code completion is espectacular-espectacular, even in
>> > workspaces!!!
>>
>> Great!
>
> hm, how is code completion suposed to work?
>
> when I type in workspace for instance Time I get empty white box below it.
> after I type space, I get a bit bigger empty white box below it.
>
> rush
> --
> http://www.templatetamer.com/
> http://www.folderscavenger.com/
>
>
>


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
In reply to this post by rush
Rush,

> when I type in workspace for instance Time I get empty white box
> below it.  after I type space, I get a bit bigger empty white box
> below it.

It's sounds like there is a problem on your installation. Can you post
a link to a screenshot?

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Andy Bower-3
> It's sounds like there is a problem on your installation. Can you post
> a link to a screenshot?

Actually, the news server should accept attachments so you could post
the screenshot directly if you wish.

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Ian Bartholomew-20
In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3
Andy,

> Report bugs in this newsgroup please.

Would you prefer one message per bug or are composite reports OK.

Ian


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Christopher J. Demers
In reply to this post by rush
"rush" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
...

> :) I have started writing sometnig like this, and then I thought wait a
> bit,
> now will Bill write something like this but more eloquently. So I will now
> just second Bill's post. I also remember we had similar discussion for at
> least last few releases of Dolphin, so I will not bore you to death with
> arguments, just stating that not much has changed under the sun regarding
> this issue. I do not mind developing on XP, but beeing able to run
> deployed
> apps on older machines is important consideration. So, please, to extent
> that is not hurting your development too much, try to keep old machines in
> bussines.

I will echo this sentiment as well.  All my development machines are Windows
XP.  However I do have end-users that are running Windows 2000.  I don't
need to develop on anything older than Windows XP, but I do need to be able
to run a standalone EXE on Windows 2000.  I even have a few users using
Windows ME and at least one running Windows 95.  So far I have been able to
support even Windows 95 simply by ensuring that the user had MDAC 2.5
installed.  I can probably stop supporting Windows 9X if I need to, but I
think there will be problems if I can't support Windows 2000.

Chris


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Chris Uppal-3
In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3
Andy,

> D6 will only be supported on XP
> and Windows Server 2003 machines. Win2K is not one of our target
> platforms and I doubt it will run correctly.

That's kind of a problem for me too.

In the short term the problem is that have only one WinXP machine, all the
rest are Win2K (or Linux -- and I even still have an NT box, but I don't expect
/anything/ to work on that ;-).  The XP box is my main dev box so I don't
really want to put an early beta onto it.  I was planning to put the beta (or
the early ones, anyway) on one of the Win2K boxes, I'd still be happy to do
that, but I wonder if it would be any use to you ?

In the longer term, I don't think I'd have very much interest in a programming
tool that didn't support W2K as a deployment target (perhaps with some
limitations). And if it didn't work as a development env on Win2K (perhaps with
some workarounds/compromises) then would be a fairly large (though not
insuperable) nuisance.

    -- chris


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

rush
In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3
"Andy Bower" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> > It's sounds like there is a problem on your installation. Can you post
> > a link to a screenshot?
>
> Actually, the news server should accept attachments so you could post
> the screenshot directly if you wish.

Here it is. It seems as if Dolphin is trying to communicate something to me,
but unsuccessfully :)

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/


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end


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Claudio Campos
I have the same problem... (see the thread: "BUG: Intellisense")

Claudio Campos
Argentina

"rush" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
"Andy Bower" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> > It's sounds like there is a problem on your installation. Can you post
> > a link to a screenshot?
>
> Actually, the news server should accept attachments so you could post
> the screenshot directly if you wish.

Here it is. It seems as if Dolphin is trying to communicate something to me,
but unsuccessfully :)

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Steve Alan Waring
In reply to this post by Christopher J. Demers
> 2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machine

I am in the same boat as the others. I will need to stick with D5 for my
main development work for at least a couple of years. When I can, I will use
D6, but I can't afford to cut off win98 and 2k users (as much as I would
like to see the last of win98!)

Without support for 2k and realistically 98, D6 will be a bit like forbidden
fruit for me.

Will you continue to sell and support D5?

Steve
--
Steve Waring
[hidden email]


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Re: Dolphin 6 Beta 1

Blair McGlashan
"Steve Waring" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

>> 2) Dolphin 6 will only be supported on Windows XP and 2K3 machine
>
> I am in the same boat as the others. I will need to stick with D5 for my
> main development work for at least a couple of years. When I can, I will
> use D6, but I can't afford to cut off win98 and 2k users (as much as I
> would like to see the last of win98!)
>
> Without support for 2k and realistically 98, D6 will be a bit like
> forbidden fruit for me.
>
> Will you continue to sell and support D5?

I think its worth making it clear what we are saying here, which is
essentially that we have decided that we simply don't have time to test
stuff on older Windows versions, nor do we have time to write emulations for
features of XP and later that might not be available on earlier OSs.
Therefore we don't feel that we can say that those platforms are officially
"supported". This doesn't mean that deployed apps will not work on those
platforms, or even that the development system will not work, it's just that
it is wholely your responsibility to test your applications on those
platforms that you wish to support, and avoid those features of Dolphin that
are XP specific. If you come across issues that are easily fixed (by which I
mean you can provide a simple patch and preferably test) for Win2K
compatibility, then please submit it and we will include what we can. I
won't say the same for Win98 stuff, but if its low impact then we would
consider it.

Regards

Blair


12