Dolphin on Tablet PC
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Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet
extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to use the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into Dolphin depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a superset of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that control that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and hints about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in the Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm afraid. Thanks in advance rob van lopik |
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Rob,
> Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet > extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to use > the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. > Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into Dolphin > depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a superset > of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that control > that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and hints > about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in the > Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does > convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm > afraid. Not necessarily. Is that all you want it to do? If so, you are probably done. It is true that the adding to the rich text line does not instill confidence, but that's not the real concern. If the tablet software is flaky, you and others will simply quit using it. But what about data that you saved and will want in the future? If you are simply going to get text from them, then you won't have a problem. Do you want to do anything more complicated, perhaps capturing the digital ink directly? If so, have at it, but <youHaveBeenWarned>do not trust Microsoft when they tell you that any particular structures and functions for reloading/redisplaying/manipulating that ink will be supported beyond the version you have in your hand. Instead, convert it as you get it. Write your own code to store/load/redisplay/etc. You might hedge your bets by serializing both the MS format and your own so that you can load theirs if possible, and yours if history repeats itself.</youHaveBeenWarned> Have a good one, Bill -- Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Robert A.M. van Lopik
Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote:
> Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet > extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to use > the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. > Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into Dolphin > depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a superset > of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that control > that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and hints > about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in the > Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does > convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm > afraid. > > Thanks in advance > rob van lopik > > I have also played with Dolphin on a Tablet PC, but I'm going to wait before trying to make something more of it. I have appliation that could benefit, but I also have a problem with the handwriting recognition. It works very well for words and for things that aren't words, but it's relentless if it see what it thinks are words. In my example to Microsoft's tech-support, I pointed out that if I write LUPOLICY ( a policy table) it recognizes it as 'LUPOLICY'. However, if I write POLICYKEY (the primary key of that table) it gets recognized as POLICY KEY, since both fragments are words in the dictionary. Since there is no way to enter something like acronym mode or "just let me type" mode, it makes the recognition painful to use in technical situations (which is where my use falls). There is a work around, but it's painful as well. For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the way they are today. --Dan Antion |
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Dan,
> For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie > into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the > way they are today. Slight correction: my concern is that good people will be hurt if (ok, more like when) Microsoft changes direction. Protect yourself against that scenario, and then have at it. Have a good one, Bill -- Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. [hidden email] |
Re: Dolphin on Tablet PC
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In reply to this post by Bill Schwab-2
Bill,
"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:b2k0it$1dm391$[hidden email]... > Rob, > > > Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet > > extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to > use > > the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. > > Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into Dolphin > > depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a superset > > of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that > control > > that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and > hints > > about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in the > > Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does > > convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm > > afraid. > > Not necessarily. Is that all you want it to do? If so, you are probably > done. It is true that the adding to the rich text line does not instill > confidence, but that's not the real concern. If the tablet software is > flaky, you and others will simply quit using it. But what about data that > you saved and will want in the future? If you are simply going to get text > from them, then you won't have a problem. > > Do you want to do anything more complicated, perhaps capturing the digital > ink directly? If so, have at it, but <youHaveBeenWarned>do not trust > Microsoft when they tell you that any particular structures and functions > for reloading/redisplaying/manipulating that ink will be supported beyond > the version you have in your hand. Instead, convert it as you get it. > Write your own code to store/load/redisplay/etc. You might hedge your bets > by serializing both the MS format and your own so that you can load theirs > if possible, and yours if history repeats itself.</youHaveBeenWarned> > > Have a good one, > > Bill Your mistrust of Microsoft was already known to me. I understand it, although I think the Tablet has more chances of surviving. Anyhow, I am mostly interested in capturing the ASCII output, a standard that by now seems to have stabilized. My technical questions however are more accurately described as follows: - the first option is to subclass AXControlSite, although I don't know exactly how to get that working. That is what this class is meant for; - on the other hand, InkEdit is a superset of RichEdit and implements all of its protocol; you can even use it on non-Tablet systems in which case it behaves like a RichEdit v4.1 (all according to MS documentation). In that case it would seem more logical to sublass TextEdit (starting by overriding winClassName), so it could easily replace the standard text controls in Dolphin, without having to reimplement all of their protocol. I hoped for some input from Ian Bartholomew, because he has been busy with that. I hope I have made clearer what kind of advice I am seeking. rob van lopik |
Re: Dolphin on Tablet PC
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In reply to this post by Dan Antion
Dan,
"Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:[hidden email]... > > > Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: > > Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet > > extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to use > > the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. > > Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into Dolphin > > depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a superset > > of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that control > > that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and hints > > about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in the > > Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does > > convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm > > afraid. > > > > Thanks in advance > > rob van lopik > > > > > > I have also played with Dolphin on a Tablet PC, but I'm going to wait > before trying to make something more of it. I have appliation that > could benefit, but I also have a problem with the handwriting > recognition. It works very well for words and for things that aren't > words, but it's relentless if it see what it thinks are words. In my > example to Microsoft's tech-support, I pointed out that if I write > LUPOLICY ( a policy table) it recognizes it as 'LUPOLICY'. However, if > I write POLICYKEY (the primary key of that table) it gets recognized as > POLICY KEY, since both fragments are words in the dictionary. Since > there is no way to enter something like acronym mode or "just let me > type" mode, it makes the recognition painful to use in technical > situations (which is where my use falls). There is a work around, but > it's painful as well. > > For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie > into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the > way they are today. > > --Dan Antion > the interpretation. Did you have a look at the new version 1.5 of the Tablet Pc SDK? For example, it seems quite easy to provide each InkEdit with it's own dictionnary, which could prevent the problems you mentioned. Look in the docs for "dictionaries and factoids". In fact, this is one of the reasons I am looking into using the InkEdit control in Dolphin, as I would very much prefer experimenting with these in Smalltalk instead of C*. By the way, I understand there are already different recognizers for text, numbers, phone numbers, etc. rob van lopik |
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In reply to this post by Robert A.M. van Lopik
Rob,
> - on the other hand, InkEdit is a superset of RichEdit and implements > all of its protocol; you can even use it on non-Tablet systems in > which case it behaves like a RichEdit v4.1 (all according to MS > documentation). In that case it would seem more logical to sublass > TextEdit (starting by overriding winClassName), so it could easily > replace the standard text controls in Dolphin, without having to > reimplement all of their protocol. I hoped for some input from Ian > Bartholomew, because he has been busy with that. Ah, sorry. I would have replied earlier but I wasn't sure what you were trying to achieve and also assumed you were going down the Active/X route first anyway. Getting anything other than RichEdit 1.0 working in Dolphin's standard environment appears to be possible but starts to get very messy when you look into it. It is something that I didn't really pursue after the original experimentation - you can refer to in the previous newsgroup threads you mentioned for some reasons. I am happily using RichEdit 4.1 in my current image (mainly as it enhances my printer goodies) but the class is not associated with the existing TextEdit or RichTextEdit classes and cannot be used as a direct replacement for them. You can however pass rich text back and forth between them so the new control can be used _in association_ with the existing classes. It should be quite easy to get the tablet extensions working within Dolphin (assuming InkEdit _is_ a direct replacement for msftedit (the RichEdit 4.1 dll)) but nowhere near as easy to get them working as part of the development environment. I've been a bit distracted for the last couple of months and therefore haven't been "busy with" the RichEdit interface at all - in fact I've hardly touched it since early December. You are welcome to the classes I do have though - incomplete as they are. -- Ian |
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In reply to this post by Robert A.M. van Lopik
"Robert A.M. van Lopik" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:3e5012b3$0$606$[hidden email]... >...My technical questions however are more accurately > described as follows: > - the first option is to subclass AXControlSite, although I don't know > exactly how to get that working. That is what this class is meant for; > - on the other hand, InkEdit is a superset of RichEdit and implements all of > its protocol; you can even use it on non-Tablet systems in which case it > behaves like a RichEdit v4.1 (all according to MS documentation). In that > case it would seem more logical to sublass TextEdit (starting by overriding > winClassName), so it could easily replace the standard text controls in > Dolphin, without having to reimplement all of their protocol.... Take a look at the MaskedEdit class. This is a wrapper for the Microsoft Masked Edit OCX that can be plugged in where a TextEdit would normally be used. You'll see that this does have to duplicate some of the functionality of TextEdit in order to implement the <textView> protocol, but this is a lot more straightforward than implementing the Active-X site support in a TextEdit subclass. There's a little bit more needed for a hypothetical <richTextView> protocol (not defined, unfortunately), but again it doesn't amount to much. By following the approach of MaskedEdit I think you should be able to create a view that can be used with a RichTextPresenter pretty easily, however the issues are really more to do with the incompatibility between RichEdit 1.0 and later versions. For example RichEdit 1.0 uses the standard cr/lf line endings, whereas later versions dropped to a single LF or CR (can't remember which), meaning that conversions may be necessary. Regards Blair |
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In reply to this post by Robert A.M. van Lopik
Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote:
> Dan, > > "Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message > news:[hidden email]... > >> >>Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: >> >>>Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet >>>extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to >> > use > >>>the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. >>>Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into >> > Dolphin > >>>depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a >> > superset > >>>of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that >> > control > >>>that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and >> > hints > >>>about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in >> > the > >>>Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it does >>>convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm >>>afraid. >>> >>>Thanks in advance >>>rob van lopik >>> >>> >> >>I have also played with Dolphin on a Tablet PC, but I'm going to wait >>before trying to make something more of it. I have appliation that >>could benefit, but I also have a problem with the handwriting >>recognition. It works very well for words and for things that aren't >>words, but it's relentless if it see what it thinks are words. In my >>example to Microsoft's tech-support, I pointed out that if I write >>LUPOLICY ( a policy table) it recognizes it as 'LUPOLICY'. However, if >>I write POLICYKEY (the primary key of that table) it gets recognized as >>POLICY KEY, since both fragments are words in the dictionary. Since >>there is no way to enter something like acronym mode or "just let me >>type" mode, it makes the recognition painful to use in technical >>situations (which is where my use falls). There is a work around, but >>it's painful as well. >> >>For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie >>into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the >>way they are today. >> >>--Dan Antion >> > > Handwriting recognition will always depend on the help you can provide for > the interpretation. > Did you have a look at the new version 1.5 of the Tablet Pc SDK? For > example, it seems quite easy to provide each InkEdit with it's own > dictionnary, which could prevent the problems you mentioned. > Look in the docs for "dictionaries and factoids". In fact, this is one of > the reasons I am looking into using the InkEdit control in Dolphin, as I > would very much prefer experimenting with these in Smalltalk instead of C*. > By the way, I understand there are already different recognizers for text, > numbers, phone numbers, etc. > > rob van lopik > > with it on a casual basis. If I were working on a product, that would be one thing but I'm working on something that helps me do the work I do. In this case, I just feel it might be better to wait and see what Miscrsoft and others do to make my job easier. It seems that interest is growing in the tablets, although I don't know what the rate of adoption is and whether Microsoft is happy with it. I took a look at the SDK, but my issue isn't having a spcific dictionary rather I'd like to enter text and have it recognized simply as characters (either grouped together or separated by spaces). I could see adding words like Popupmenu to a dictionary, but I'd hate to have to add every field of every database table. If I did that, I wouldn't need the application I'm trying to build :) For example, while policyKey is the primary key of my example table, and it is used in a lot of places, 'standardPremium' 'standardCommission' 'reservePremium' are just a few of the fields that would only be entered in one table and not referenced elsewhere. Entering them in a dictionary would literally duplicate the work involved fofr those fields. Thanks --Dan |
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Dan,
There is a way to set the recognizer to do what you are looking for. If you setup a RecognizerContext to have a factoid set to NONE, then the recognizer will pretty much recognize just characters. I hope that I can help you out with any further questions you might have about the Tablet PC Platform. Please also take a look at microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc and microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer for more information. Thank you, Arin Goldberg Program Manager Tablet PC Platform -- This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm "Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:[hidden email]... > > > Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: > > Dan, > > > > "Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message > > news:[hidden email]... > > > >> > >>Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: > >> > >>>Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet > >>>extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to > >> > > use > > > >>>the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. > >>>Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into > >> > > Dolphin > > > >>>depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a > >> > > superset > > > >>>of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that > >> > > control > > > >>>that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and > >> > > hints > > > >>>about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in > >> > > the > > > >>>Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it > >>>convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, I'm > >>>afraid. > >>> > >>>Thanks in advance > >>>rob van lopik > >>> > >>> > >> > >>I have also played with Dolphin on a Tablet PC, but I'm going to wait > >>before trying to make something more of it. I have appliation that > >>could benefit, but I also have a problem with the handwriting > >>recognition. It works very well for words and for things that aren't > >>words, but it's relentless if it see what it thinks are words. In my > >>example to Microsoft's tech-support, I pointed out that if I write > >>LUPOLICY ( a policy table) it recognizes it as 'LUPOLICY'. However, if > >>I write POLICYKEY (the primary key of that table) it gets recognized as > >>POLICY KEY, since both fragments are words in the dictionary. Since > >>there is no way to enter something like acronym mode or "just let me > >>type" mode, it makes the recognition painful to use in technical > >>situations (which is where my use falls). There is a work around, but > >>it's painful as well. > >> > >>For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie > >>into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the > >>way they are today. > >> > >>--Dan Antion > >> > > > > Handwriting recognition will always depend on the help you can provide > > the interpretation. > > Did you have a look at the new version 1.5 of the Tablet Pc SDK? For > > example, it seems quite easy to provide each InkEdit with it's own > > dictionnary, which could prevent the problems you mentioned. > > Look in the docs for "dictionaries and factoids". In fact, this is one of > > the reasons I am looking into using the InkEdit control in Dolphin, as I > > would very much prefer experimenting with these in Smalltalk instead of C*. > > By the way, I understand there are already different recognizers for text, > > numbers, phone numbers, etc. > > > > rob van lopik > > > > > I guess what I meant to say is that I think it's just too early to work > with > it on a casual basis. If I were working on a product, that would be one > thing > but I'm working on something that helps me do the work I do. In this > case, I just feel it might be better to wait and see what Miscrsoft and > others do to make my job easier. It seems that interest is growing in > the tablets, although I don't know what the rate of adoption is and > whether Microsoft is happy with it. > > I took a look at the SDK, but my issue isn't having a spcific dictionary > rather I'd like to enter text and have it recognized simply as > characters (either grouped together or separated by spaces). I could see > adding words like Popupmenu to a dictionary, but I'd hate to have to add > every field of every database table. If I did that, I wouldn't need the > application I'm trying to build :) For example, while policyKey is the > primary key of my example table, and it is used in a lot of places, > 'standardPremium' 'standardCommission' 'reservePremium' are just a few > of the fields that would only be entered in one table and not referenced > elsewhere. Entering them in a dictionary would literally duplicate the > work involved fofr those fields. > > Thanks > --Dan > |
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Thanks!
-Dan Arin Goldberg [MS] wrote: > Dan, > > There is a way to set the recognizer to do what you are looking for. If you > setup a RecognizerContext to have a factoid set to NONE, then the recognizer > will pretty much recognize just characters. > > I hope that I can help you out with any further questions you might have > about the Tablet PC Platform. > Please also take a look at microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc and > microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc.developer for more information. > > Thank you, > Arin Goldberg > Program Manager > Tablet PC Platform > -- > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no > rights. Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at > http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm > > "Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message > news:[hidden email]... > >> >>Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: >> >>>Dan, >>> >>>"Dan Antion" <[hidden email]> wrote in message >>>news:[hidden email]... >>> >>> >>>>Robert A.M. van Lopik wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Having Dolphin running on my Tablet PC (that is Windows XP with tablet >>>>>extensions) I want to use the special controls that make it possible to >>>> >>>use >>> >>> >>>>>the pen for input. These are in the Tablet SDK. >>>>>Especially the InkEdit looks promising. This however leads me into >>>> >>>Dolphin >>> >>> >>>>>depths I haven't ventured into yet. According to MS, InkEdit is a >>>> >>>superset >>> >>> >>>>>of RichEdit 4.1. I found a discussion of some months ago about that >>>> >>>control >>> >>> >>>>>that is not very encouraging. Nevertheless I welcome all pointers and >>>> >>>hints >>> >>> >>>>>about how to accomplish this. Note that the control shows up nicely in >>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>Active-X Control Browser and I can write with my pen into it and it >>>> > does > >>>>>convert the written text into ASCII. But that is only the beginning, >>>> > I'm > >>>>>afraid. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks in advance >>>>>rob van lopik >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>I have also played with Dolphin on a Tablet PC, but I'm going to wait >>>>before trying to make something more of it. I have appliation that >>>>could benefit, but I also have a problem with the handwriting >>>>recognition. It works very well for words and for things that aren't >>>>words, but it's relentless if it see what it thinks are words. In my >>>>example to Microsoft's tech-support, I pointed out that if I write >>>>LUPOLICY ( a policy table) it recognizes it as 'LUPOLICY'. However, if >>>>I write POLICYKEY (the primary key of that table) it gets recognized as >>>>POLICY KEY, since both fragments are words in the dictionary. Since >>>>there is no way to enter something like acronym mode or "just let me >>>>type" mode, it makes the recognition painful to use in technical >>>>situations (which is where my use falls). There is a work around, but >>>>it's painful as well. >>>> >>>>For right now, I'm enjoying the Tablet, but I'm not too eager to tie >>>>into it's APIs, I shar Bill's concern that they aren't going to stay the >>>>way they are today. >>>> >>>>--Dan Antion >>>> >>> >>>Handwriting recognition will always depend on the help you can provide >> > for > >>>the interpretation. >>>Did you have a look at the new version 1.5 of the Tablet Pc SDK? For >>>example, it seems quite easy to provide each InkEdit with it's own >>>dictionnary, which could prevent the problems you mentioned. >>>Look in the docs for "dictionaries and factoids". In fact, this is one >> > of > >>>the reasons I am looking into using the InkEdit control in Dolphin, as I >>>would very much prefer experimenting with these in Smalltalk instead of >> > C*. > >>>By the way, I understand there are already different recognizers for >> > text, > >>>numbers, phone numbers, etc. >>> >>>rob van lopik >>> >>> >> >>I guess what I meant to say is that I think it's just too early to work >>with >>it on a casual basis. If I were working on a product, that would be one >>thing >>but I'm working on something that helps me do the work I do. In this >>case, I just feel it might be better to wait and see what Miscrsoft and >>others do to make my job easier. It seems that interest is growing in >>the tablets, although I don't know what the rate of adoption is and >>whether Microsoft is happy with it. >> >>I took a look at the SDK, but my issue isn't having a spcific dictionary >>rather I'd like to enter text and have it recognized simply as >>characters (either grouped together or separated by spaces). I could see >>adding words like Popupmenu to a dictionary, but I'd hate to have to add >>every field of every database table. If I did that, I wouldn't need the >>application I'm trying to build :) For example, while policyKey is the >>primary key of my example table, and it is used in a lot of places, >>'standardPremium' 'standardCommission' 'reservePremium' are just a few >>of the fields that would only be entered in one table and not referenced >>elsewhere. Entering them in a dictionary would literally duplicate the >>work involved fofr those fields. >> >>Thanks >>--Dan >> > > > |
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