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Dr. Geo for acadamy

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hilaire

Dr. Geo for acadamy

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philippeback

Re: Dr. Geo for acadamy

Hi,

Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And manipulating them even more (I am busy with that now).

As for Geogebra as competition, these guys are now doing a ton of 3D (we use GG here with my wife, a maths teacher) and their DSL is pretty useful once mastered. I find myself constructing a lot of things from the little "command prompt" of theirs. That would be an interesting addition to DrGeo (and why not being GG-compatible on the commands).

I know I can get a browser and all, but that's not cutting it the same way.

DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?

I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).

Also, a good thing to add to DrGeo is a window with a list of entities with their name and possibility to rename/change attributes from there. Once the things get complex, this is a godsend in GeoGebra...

Phil

2012/8/13 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>

Hello,

Thinking aloud. May be I already discussed the following ideas with some of you.
Dr. Geo is now mature enough to learn from it and to propose it as a tool students in computer science and/or mathematics can use for final projects or study projects.
The idea is to propose student programming projects around Dr. Geo. A list of projects should be drafted and designed to be appropriate for students. I am not really sure about the level of difficulties, the duration such project could take, but listing ideas could be a good start. Moreover, I don't know if the idea elaborated in this document make any sense, so your feedback on that point would be greatly appreciated as well. Another requirement could be to list why students will benefit working in a project around Dr. Geo, to be done later if the idea take off.

Regarding Dr. Geo project itself the benefice is more to gain in visibility and not in contributions coming from students work, indeed sudents will more likely maintain the project only for the duration of their studies. But more visibility on Dr. Geo can mean more long term contributors, hopefully from the academic sector. Dr. Geo need it to scale up and to compete with other alike project like GeoGebra where the contributors are numerous. If not, Dr. Geo will remain an epiphenomena and the great concept behind Dr. Geo, modify me from myself, will be lost.

Regarding the project ideas, I see two categories: projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smalltalk ones and projects tightly related to Dr. Geo core.

1. Projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smallktalk software:
- framework to render latex formula
- mini-worksheet package to embed in an application
- supplementary Polymorph widgets
- mini algebraic system for symbolic manipulation of mathematic expressions
- proof system, prolog or purely Smalltalk based

2. Projects tightly tied to Dr. Geo:
- SVG, EPS exporters
- new UI paradigm to build interactive sketch
- porting to other system, closely related to Virtual Machinery
- More constructions tools, it is a very good teachable as it dives you in an application with a lot of design patterns in action. See following document
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/drgeo/+spec/todo-to-implement-new-tool

There are more ideas.
If you think about any person involved in the academic sector, please forward, this is why I wrote the document in Frenglish after all.

Thanks

Hilaire Fernandes

--
Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu

--
Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu

--
Philippe Back
Dramatic Performance Improvements
Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be

High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Belgium

Lorenzo

R: Dr. Geo for acadamy

Hi Phil and Hilaire,

I have already developed a simplex in ST.

Lorenzo

Da: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di [hidden email]
Inviato: lunedì 13 agosto 2012 16.37
A: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy

Hi,

Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And manipulating them even more (I am busy with that now).

I know I can get a browser and all, but that's not cutting it the same way.

DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?

I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).

Phil

2012/8/13 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>

Hello,

Thinking aloud. May be I already discussed the following ideas with some of you.
Dr. Geo is now mature enough to learn from it and to propose it as a tool students in computer science and/or mathematics can use for final projects or study projects.
The idea is to propose student programming projects around Dr. Geo. A list of projects should be drafted and designed to be appropriate for students. I am not really sure about the level of difficulties, the duration such project could take, but listing ideas could be a good start. Moreover, I don't know if the idea elaborated in this document make any sense, so your feedback on that point would be greatly appreciated as well. Another requirement could be to list why students will benefit working in a project around Dr. Geo, to be done later if the idea take off.

Regarding Dr. Geo project itself the benefice is more to gain in visibility and not in contributions coming from students work, indeed sudents will more likely maintain the project only for the duration of their studies. But more visibility on Dr. Geo can mean more long term contributors, hopefully from the academic sector. Dr. Geo need it to scale up and to compete with other alike project like GeoGebra where the contributors are numerous. If not, Dr. Geo will remain an epiphenomena and the great concept behind Dr. Geo, modify me from myself, will be lost.

Regarding the project ideas, I see two categories: projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smalltalk ones and projects tightly related to Dr. Geo core.

1. Projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smallktalk software:
- framework to render latex formula
- mini-worksheet package to embed in an application
- supplementary Polymorph widgets
- mini algebraic system for symbolic manipulation of mathematic expressions
- proof system, prolog or purely Smalltalk based

2. Projects tightly tied to Dr. Geo:
- SVG, EPS exporters
- new UI paradigm to build interactive sketch
- porting to other system, closely related to Virtual Machinery
- More constructions tools, it is a very good teachable as it dives you in an application with a lot of design patterns in action. See following document
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/drgeo/+spec/todo-to-implement-new-tool

There are more ideas.
If you think about any person involved in the academic sector, please forward, this is why I wrote the document in Frenglish after all.

Thanks

Hilaire Fernandes

--
Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu

--
Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Dr. Geo for acadamy

Lorenzo

It would be great if you release your code under a friendly license so that we can have a look.
I was refactoring for fun a little expert system too.
I never got until the end but I should finish once.

Stef
On Aug 14, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Lorenzo Schiavina wrote:

> Hi Phil and Hilaire,
>
> I have already developed a simplex in ST.
>
> Lorenzo
>
> Da: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di [hidden email]
> Inviato: lunedì 13 agosto 2012 16.37
> A: [hidden email]
> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy
>
> Hi,
>
> Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And manipulating them even more (I am busy with that now).
>
> As for Geogebra as competition, these guys are now doing a ton of 3D (we use GG here with my wife, a maths teacher) and their DSL is pretty useful once mastered. I find myself constructing a lot of things from the little "command prompt" of theirs. That would be an interesting addition to DrGeo (and why not being GG-compatible on the commands).
> I know I can get a browser and all, but that's not cutting it the same way.
>
> DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?
>
> I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).
>
> Also, a good thing to add to DrGeo is a window with a list of entities with their name and possibility to rename/change attributes from there. Once the things get complex, this is a godsend in GeoGebra...
>
> KR
> Phil
>
>
>
> 2012/8/13 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thinking aloud. May be I already discussed the following ideas with some of you.
> Dr. Geo is now mature enough to learn from it and to propose it as a tool students in computer science and/or mathematics can use for final projects or study projects.
> The idea is to propose student programming projects around Dr. Geo. A list of projects should be drafted and designed to be appropriate for students. I am not really sure about the level of difficulties, the duration such project could take, but listing ideas could be a good start. Moreover, I don't know if the idea elaborated in this document make any sense, so your feedback on that point would be greatly appreciated as well. Another requirement could be to list why students will benefit working in a project around Dr. Geo, to be done later if the idea take off.
>
> Regarding Dr. Geo project itself the benefice is more to gain in visibility and not in contributions coming from students work, indeed sudents will more likely maintain the project only for the duration of their studies. But more visibility on Dr. Geo can mean more long term contributors, hopefully from the academic sector. Dr. Geo need it to scale up and to compete with other alike project like GeoGebra where the contributors are numerous. If not, Dr. Geo will remain an epiphenomena and the great concept behind Dr. Geo, modify me from myself, will be lost.
>
> Regarding the project ideas, I see two categories: projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smalltalk ones and projects tightly related to Dr. Geo core.
>
> 1. Projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smallktalk software:
> - framework to render latex formula
> - mini-worksheet package to embed in an application
> - supplementary Polymorph widgets
> - mini algebraic system for symbolic manipulation of mathematic expressions
> - proof system, prolog or purely Smalltalk based
>
> 2. Projects tightly tied to Dr. Geo:
> - SVG, EPS exporters
> - new UI paradigm to build interactive sketch
> - porting to other system, closely related to Virtual Machinery
> - More constructions tools, it is a very good teachable as it dives you in an application with a lot of design patterns in action. See following document
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/drgeo/+spec/todo-to-implement-new-tool
>
> There are more ideas.
> If you think about any person involved in the academic sector, please forward, this is why I wrote the document in Frenglish after all.
>
> Thanks
>
> Hilaire Fernandes
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>
>
>
> --
> Philippe Back
> Dramatic Performance Improvements
> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email] | Web:http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be
>
> High Octane SPRL
> rue cour Boisacq 101
> 1301 Bierges
> Belgium

Lorenzo

R: Dr. Geo for acadamy

Hi Stef,

I will be very happy to release my Simplex application; I developed it some
years ago in VSE.
At present I am trying to port under Pharo (or Squeak) an expert system
generator based on fuzzy logic which name is FuzzyWorld and I have already
used for lot of real word applications.
I attach some documentation about a presentation I had at ESUG and of
current version of FuzzyWorld.
An initial version of FuzzyWorld has been already ported by a student of
mine (Davide Arrigo)to Squeak; I am sure he will pleased to release it.
Please, tell what I have to do for releasing them.

Ciao

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Stéphane
Ducasse
Inviato: martedì 14 agosto 2012 12.09
A: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy

Lorenzo

It would be great if you release your code under a friendly license so that
we can have a look.
I was refactoring for fun a little expert system too.
I never got until the end but I should finish once.

Stef
On Aug 14, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Lorenzo Schiavina wrote:

> Hi Phil and Hilaire,
>
> I have already developed a simplex in ST.
>
> Lorenzo
>
> Da: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di
[hidden email]
> Inviato: lunedì 13 agosto 2012 16.37
> A: [hidden email]
> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy
>
> Hi,
>
> Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And manipulating
them even more (I am busy with that now).
>
> As for Geogebra as competition, these guys are now doing a ton of 3D (we
use GG here with my wife, a maths teacher) and their DSL is pretty useful
once mastered. I find myself constructing a lot of things from the little
"command prompt" of theirs. That would be an interesting addition to DrGeo
(and why not being GG-compatible on the commands).
> I know I can get a browser and all, but that's not cutting it the same
way.
>
> DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?
>
> I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a
solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).
>
> Also, a good thing to add to DrGeo is a window with a list of entities
with their name and possibility to rename/change attributes from there. Once
the things get complex, this is a godsend in GeoGebra...

>
> KR
> Phil
>
>
>
> 2012/8/13 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thinking aloud. May be I already discussed the following ideas with some

of you.
> Dr. Geo is now mature enough to learn from it and to propose it as a tool

students in computer science and/or mathematics can use for final projects
or study projects.
> The idea is to propose student programming projects around Dr. Geo. A list
of projects should be drafted and designed to be appropriate for students. I
am not really sure about the level of difficulties, the duration such
project could take, but listing ideas could be a good start. Moreover, I
don't know if the idea elaborated in this document make any sense, so your
feedback on that point would be greatly appreciated as well. Another
requirement could be to list why students will benefit working in a project
around Dr. Geo, to be done later if the idea take off.
>
> Regarding Dr. Geo project itself the benefice is more to gain in
visibility and not in contributions coming from students work, indeed
sudents will more likely maintain the project only for the duration of their
studies. But more visibility on Dr. Geo can mean more long term
contributors, hopefully from the academic sector. Dr. Geo need it to scale
up and to compete with other alike project like GeoGebra where the
contributors are numerous. If not, Dr. Geo will remain an epiphenomena and
the great concept behind Dr. Geo, modify me from myself, will be lost.
>
> Regarding the project ideas, I see two categories: projects of interest
for Dr. Geo and other Smalltalk ones and projects tightly related to Dr. Geo
core.
>
> 1. Projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smallktalk software:
> - framework to render latex formula
> - mini-worksheet package to embed in an application
> - supplementary Polymorph widgets
> - mini algebraic system for symbolic manipulation of mathematic
expressions
> - proof system, prolog or purely Smalltalk based
>
> 2. Projects tightly tied to Dr. Geo:
> - SVG, EPS exporters
> - new UI paradigm to build interactive sketch
> - porting to other system, closely related to Virtual Machinery
> - More constructions tools, it is a very good teachable as it dives you in
an application with a lot of design patterns in action. See following
document
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/drgeo/+spec/todo-to-implement-new-tool
>
> There are more ideas.
> If you think about any person involved in the academic sector, please
forward, this is why I wrote the document in Frenglish after all.

>
> Thanks
>
> Hilaire Fernandes
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>
>
>
> --
> Philippe Back
> Dramatic Performance Improvements
> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email]

| Web:http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be
>
> High Octane SPRL
> rue cour Boisacq 101
> 1301 Bierges
> Belgium

EnglishFuzzyWorld.ppt (143K) Download Attachment

englishFuzzyObjects.ppt (112K) Download Attachment

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Dr. Geo for acadamy

On Aug 14, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Lorenzo Schiavina wrote:

> Hi Stef,
>
> I will be very happy to release my Simplex application; I developed it some
> years ago in VSE.

Excellent
I thin that this is important to build a set of nice packages that people can use and enhance over time.

> At present I am trying to port under Pharo (or Squeak) an expert system
> generator based on fuzzy logic which name is FuzzyWorld and I have already
> used for lot of real word applications.
> I attach some documentation about a presentation I had at ESUG and of
> current version of FuzzyWorld.

Thanks I will have a look

> An initial version of FuzzyWorld has been already ported by a student of
> mine (Davide Arrigo)to Squeak; I am sure he will pleased to release it.
> Please, tell what I have to do for releasing them.

publish the code on smalltalkhub or ss3 and put a MIT or BSD license.
If you have the time to flesh up a little web page describing it it would be great else
do it incrementally.

:)

>
> Ciao
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Stéphane
> Ducasse
> Inviato: martedì 14 agosto 2012 12.09
> A: [hidden email]
> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy
>
> Lorenzo
>
> It would be great if you release your code under a friendly license so that
> we can have a look.
> I was refactoring for fun a little expert system too.
> I never got until the end but I should finish once.
>
> Stef
> On Aug 14, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Lorenzo Schiavina wrote:
>
>> Hi Phil and Hilaire,
>>
>> I have already developed a simplex in ST.
>>
>> Lorenzo
>>
>> Da: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di
> [hidden email]
>> Inviato: lunedì 13 agosto 2012 16.37
>> A: [hidden email]
>> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-project] Dr. Geo for acadamy
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And manipulating
> them even more (I am busy with that now).
>>
>> As for Geogebra as competition, these guys are now doing a ton of 3D (we
> use GG here with my wife, a maths teacher) and their DSL is pretty useful
> once mastered. I find myself constructing a lot of things from the little
> "command prompt" of theirs. That would be an interesting addition to DrGeo
> (and why not being GG-compatible on the commands).
>> I know I can get a browser and all, but that's not cutting it the same
> way.
>>
>> DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?
>>
>> I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a
> solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).
>>
>> Also, a good thing to add to DrGeo is a window with a list of entities
> with their name and possibility to rename/change attributes from there. Once
> the things get complex, this is a godsend in GeoGebra...
>>
>> KR
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/8/13 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Thinking aloud. May be I already discussed the following ideas with some
> of you.
>> Dr. Geo is now mature enough to learn from it and to propose it as a tool
> students in computer science and/or mathematics can use for final projects
> or study projects.
>> The idea is to propose student programming projects around Dr. Geo. A list
> of projects should be drafted and designed to be appropriate for students. I
> am not really sure about the level of difficulties, the duration such
> project could take, but listing ideas could be a good start. Moreover, I
> don't know if the idea elaborated in this document make any sense, so your
> feedback on that point would be greatly appreciated as well. Another
> requirement could be to list why students will benefit working in a project
> around Dr. Geo, to be done later if the idea take off.
>>
>> Regarding Dr. Geo project itself the benefice is more to gain in
> visibility and not in contributions coming from students work, indeed
> sudents will more likely maintain the project only for the duration of their
> studies. But more visibility on Dr. Geo can mean more long term
> contributors, hopefully from the academic sector. Dr. Geo need it to scale
> up and to compete with other alike project like GeoGebra where the
> contributors are numerous. If not, Dr. Geo will remain an epiphenomena and
> the great concept behind Dr. Geo, modify me from myself, will be lost.
>>
>> Regarding the project ideas, I see two categories: projects of interest
> for Dr. Geo and other Smalltalk ones and projects tightly related to Dr. Geo
> core.
>>
>> 1. Projects of interest for Dr. Geo and other Smallktalk software:
>> - framework to render latex formula
>> - mini-worksheet package to embed in an application
>> - supplementary Polymorph widgets
>> - mini algebraic system for symbolic manipulation of mathematic
> expressions
>> - proof system, prolog or purely Smalltalk based
>>
>> 2. Projects tightly tied to Dr. Geo:
>> - SVG, EPS exporters
>> - new UI paradigm to build interactive sketch
>> - porting to other system, closely related to Virtual Machinery
>> - More constructions tools, it is a very good teachable as it dives you in
> an application with a lot of design patterns in action. See following
> document
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/drgeo/+spec/todo-to-implement-new-tool
>>
>> There are more ideas.
>> If you think about any person involved in the academic sector, please
> forward, this is why I wrote the document in Frenglish after all.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Hilaire Fernandes
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Geo - http://www.drgeo.eu
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Philippe Back
>> Dramatic Performance Improvements
>> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: [hidden email]
> | Web:http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be
>>
>> High Octane SPRL
>> rue cour Boisacq 101
>> 1301 Bierges
>> Belgium
>
> <EnglishFuzzyWorld.ppt><englishFuzzyObjects.ppt>

Hilaire Fernandes

Re: Dr. Geo for acadamy

In reply to this post by philippeback

Hi Philip,

> Doing nice formulas in Pharo would be of interest to me. And
> manipulating them even more (I am busy with that now).

So this make one project of interest for the community.

> As for Geogebra as competition, these guys are now doing a ton of 3D (we
> use GG here with my wife, a maths teacher) and their DSL is pretty
> useful once mastered. I find myself constructing a lot of things from
> the little "command prompt" of theirs. That would be an interesting
> addition to DrGeo (and why not being GG-compatible on the commands).

Yes, should be easy to do. Dr. Geo already comes with a nice API to
describe geometry object with Smalltalk. It could be hooked to an
existing canvas.

> DrGeo is Java-free, so where can we use it where Java is not fine?

I am not sure, but I think even ARM architecture comes with some sort of
optimization for Java.
Smalltalk is hard winner when the host architecture comes without OS.
(i.e. SqueakNOS).

> I'll look at what I can propose for engineers to work on. I'd add that a
> solver for constraints would be nice to have (like Simplex).

Do you have any ideas about case use of Simplex in Dr. Geo?

> Also, a good thing to add to DrGeo is a window with a list of entities
> with their name and possibility to rename/change attributes from there.
> Once the things get complex, this is a godsend in GeoGebra...

Yes, I use to have that feature in Dr. Geo 1.1 many years ago. It will
appear in someway in DrGeoII, but hopefully with Smalltalkish spirit,
not sure how yet.

Thanks

Hilaire