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Rob Vens-2
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[Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

Rob Vens-2
Dear Smalltalkers,
This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
Rob Vens - [hidden email]



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stephane ducasse-2
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Re: [Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

stephane ducasse-2
rob sending this mail to pharo mailing-lists can help too :).
I will forward it there.
Stef

> Dear Smalltalkers,
> This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
> When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
> This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
> Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
> Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
> Rob Vens - [hidden email]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org


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SergeStinckwich
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Re: [Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

SergeStinckwich
In reply to this post by Rob Vens-2
Hi Rob,

i don't see any specific about Smalltalk here. Every time that a company used a not so well known products or libraries, this risk could occurs. Even if the language is well known, i guess this is difficult to find someone that will replace the original company in a short period of time because you need to understand the domain of the client.

Regards,

2011/12/18 Rob Vens <[hidden email]>
Dear Smalltalkers,
This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
Rob Vens - [hidden email]



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Serge Stinckwich
UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam
Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011)
http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://doesnotunderstand.org/

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fstephany
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Re: [Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

fstephany
In reply to this post by Rob Vens-2
Hi Rob,

Nice initiative !
We should keep this discussion in a public place. It is quite hard to
find freelance/companies providing Smalltalk support. It would be good
to get some publicity and learn to know each other :)

I'm proposing Smalltalk solutions more and more often (coming from a
Ruby/Rails world). But I cannot provide as much as guarantee as I would
like to my clients.

Cheers,

Francois

On 18/12/11 05:31, Rob Vens wrote:

> Dear Smalltalkers,
> This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
> When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
> This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
> Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
> Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
> Rob Vens - [hidden email]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

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CA: +1 778 558 3225

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jamesl
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Smalltalk the JVM and JetBrains ...

jamesl
Hey everyone,

Smalltalk on the JVM, and JetBrains IDEA support!

So this is the skinny. We've met the basic requirements original discussed with Jet Brains early in 2011 for Redline Smalltalk support to make it onto their roadmap.
We need your help to get it moved up. Jet Brains has a voting system where registered users vote up features they want to see implemented.
As of today, there is now one for Redline support. The next step is pretty simple...

We need everyone to login with google/yahoo or sign up for a Jet Brains account and vote for Redline support.
We need you to tweet about it.
... to email people about it.
... to google + about it.
... to stand on the street corner talking about how the world is going to come to an end unless this happens.

This could be a big deal and your help is greatly appreciated.


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Johan Brichau-2
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Re: [Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

Johan Brichau-2
In reply to this post by Rob Vens-2
Hi Rob,

The issue you raise is indeed very pertinent.

But I wonder how any company can agree _beforehand_ to serve as a replacement to the original developers. There are many concerns that make it very hard to commit to such an agreement. For example, I would find it dangerous to commit to taking over a project without knowing the state of the source code.

Because of that, I see more possibilities in a traditional escrow agreement between the company and its customer, combined with an association of companies using Smalltalk (Pharo?):
- the traditional escrow agreement makes sure that the customer gets the source code so he can contact another Smalltalk Pharo company to continue the development
- the existence of the association and its members demonstrates to the customer that he can always get in touch with other development companies that can continue working for him.

There are discussions in the Pharo community to create such a consortium. Personally, I would prefer aligning like that.

What do you think? What do the Pharo people think?

cheers
Johan

On 18 Dec 2011, at 14:31, Rob Vens wrote:

> Dear Smalltalkers,
> This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
> When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
> This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
> Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
> Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
> Rob Vens - [hidden email]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org


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stephane ducasse-2
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Re: [Dutch] Escrow agreement Smalltalk projects

stephane ducasse-2
Indeed.

Now what we could do as a community is to
        - have a list of companies that are available (but no contract because of the reasons you raised).
        - that the consortium set up a kind of certification process
                        - questions…
                        - running moose on the software :).

Stef
       
On Dec 21, 2011, at 9:54 PM, Johan Brichau wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> The issue you raise is indeed very pertinent.
>
> But I wonder how any company can agree _beforehand_ to serve as a replacement to the original developers. There are many concerns that make it very hard to commit to such an agreement. For example, I would find it dangerous to commit to taking over a project without knowing the state of the source code.
>
> Because of that, I see more possibilities in a traditional escrow agreement between the company and its customer, combined with an association of companies using Smalltalk (Pharo?):
> - the traditional escrow agreement makes sure that the customer gets the source code so he can contact another Smalltalk Pharo company to continue the development
> - the existence of the association and its members demonstrates to the customer that he can always get in touch with other development companies that can continue working for him.
>
> There are discussions in the Pharo community to create such a consortium. Personally, I would prefer aligning like that.
>
> What do you think? What do the Pharo people think?
>
> cheers
> Johan
>
> On 18 Dec 2011, at 14:31, Rob Vens wrote:
>
>> Dear Smalltalkers,
>> This issue has been raised by a small Dutch company that delivers (Pharo/Seaside) Smalltalk solutions.
>> When you, as an individual or small company, deliver Smalltalk solutions there is an implied risk for your customers in case of illness or such.
>> This risk can be mitigated through an agreement with other developers/companies in which they state that they are willing and able to take development and support upon themselves, temporary or (semi-) permanent.
>> Of course the process to get this formally agreed is a bit more complex, but this mail is only to ask whether there are (in this case preferably Dutch) Smalltalk developers willing to cooperate on this issue and possibly participate in some kind of legal agreement to provide more robust support to our customers.
>> Please reply to me personally, unless of course you want your response to benefit the broader Smalltalk community on this mailing list.
>> Rob Vens - [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Esug-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org


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